Fordnatics List Archive

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Mail From: Russ Hampsten <(email redacted)>


Some unknown mystery man hacked out on his keyboard...

> I've seen a couple of buildups based on the SVO crank, which is
>available as a semi-finished forging. Price runs from $1000 to $1500,
>depending on who's selling. Undoubtedly the way to go if you have big
>bucks to spend or are building a serious supercharged or race motor,
>but for general work the nodular iron Cleveland crank ought to be just
>fine. After all, it was good enough for a BOSS 351...

Isn't it a tight fit for a 302 block?

> By juggling things properly you can actually cram in a longer rod than
>stock. The 2.3 Pinto rod is 5.205". It's also much beefier than the
>stock rod, and even beefier than the SVO rod. To cram it all in you
>need to move the wristpins up in the piston, which requires special
>pistons. Arias or Venolia will make them up for $600/set or so, but you
>can use inexpensive ($250-ish) Brand C pistons instead.

And get them flycut for Ford valves...

> You can also offset-grind a 302 crank while reducing the journal size
>to that of the Pinto, use the longer Pinto rod, modify a dish-top 302
>piston, and come up with a 308-318 CID long-rod motor, depending on
>bore.

Very interesting... So is the Pinto's (or any 2.3L motor) rod the same
width? It must be or this would not be an alternative.

I think I have seen the 308-318CI motor advertised with the "special" rods.
The rods price were something like $300, which clued me in that they were
not custom Crowler or such (>$600). I think the 318 sounds like a very
good build up, good rod ratio with very strong rods with off the shelf
parts (except for some machine work on the crank). I don't understand what
you mean about the dished pistons though. Wouldn't you need custom pistons
with a smaller pin to deck height?

It looks like a big job is stroking a motor is finding a good rod. And
finding one is tough because of all the types that can be used. I know
about the Mopar 318 rod used in a 408W build up (with a Chevy piston), also
the 400M rod can be used in stroker and long rod ratios 351W buildups, etc.
It would be nice to have a list of all the rods and their width, length,
big end & small end size and bolt size. It sure would make some of the
mixing and matching a little more easy...

Nit picking time. Not everyone on the list can use the reply to get back
to the original author, case in point is the above post. I don't know who
wrote it, the from is (email redacted). So for us
guys that are stuck with brain-dead mail programs (on PCs) could everyone
please sign their message and at least include a return path, no long
.sig's are required. It sure makes it easier...

Thanks,

Russ
______________________________

email: (email redacted)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: chucko (Chuck Fry)

[Some misdirected mail from the -request box. Please respond to Russ,
not me. -- Chuck]

Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 16:36:49 PST
From: Russ Hampsten <(email redacted)>
To: (email redacted)
Subject: Rods & Cranks & Pistons & Other Cool Stuff

Some unknown mystery man hacked out on his keyboard...

> I've seen a couple of buildups based on the SVO crank, which is
>available as a semi-finished forging. Price runs from $1000 to $1500,
>depending on who's selling. Undoubtedly the way to go if you have big
>bucks to spend or are building a serious supercharged or race motor,
>but for general work the nodular iron Cleveland crank ought to be just
>fine. After all, it was good enough for a BOSS 351...

Isn't it a tight fit for a 302 block?

> By juggling things properly you can actually cram in a longer rod than
>stock. The 2.3 Pinto rod is 5.205". It's also much beefier than the
>stock rod, and even beefier than the SVO rod. To cram it all in you
>need to move the wristpins up in the piston, which requires special
>pistons. Arias or Venolia will make them up for $600/set or so, but you
>can use inexpensive ($250-ish) Brand C pistons instead.

And get them flycut for Ford valves...

> You can also offset-grind a 302 crank while reducing the journal size
>to that of the Pinto, use the longer Pinto rod, modify a dish-top 302
>piston, and come up with a 308-318 CID long-rod motor, depending on
>bore.

Very interesting... So is the Pinto's (or any 2.3L motor) rod the same
width? It must be or this would not be an alternative.

I think I have seen the 308-318CI motor advertised with the "special" rods.
The rods price were something like $300, which clued me in that they were
not custom Crowler or such (>$600). I think the 318 sounds like a very
good build up, good rod ratio with very strong rods with off the shelf
parts (except for some machine work on the crank). I don't understand what
you mean about the dished pistons though. Wouldn't you need custom pistons
with a smaller pin to deck height?

It looks like a big job is stroking a motor is finding a good rod. And
finding one is tough because of all the types that can be used. I know
about the Mopar 318 rod used in a 408W build up (with a Chevy piston), also
the 400M rod can be used in stroker and long rod ratios 351W buildups, etc.
It would be nice to have a list of all the rods and their width, length,
big end & small end size and bolt size. It sure would make some of the
mixing and matching a little more easy...

Nit picking time. Not everyone on the list can use the reply to get back
to the original author, case in point is the above post. I don't know who
wrote it, the from is (email redacted). So for us
guys that are stuck with brain-dead mail programs (on PCs) could everyone
please sign their message and at least include a return path, no long
.sig's are required. It sure makes it easier...

Thanks,

Russ
______________________________

email: (email redacted)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Dave Williams)


-> >fine. After all, it was good enough for a BOSS 351...

> Isn't it a tight fit for a 302 block?

You have to cut down the OD of the counterweights, otherwise it fits
just fine. The Windsors and Clevelands are kissing cousins, or you
wouldn't be able to do this sort of thing.


-> >can use inexpensive ($250-ish) Brand C pistons instead.

> And get them flycut for Ford valves...

Of course. That's why I bought a vertical mill last year. <grin>


-> Very interesting... So is the Pinto's (or any 2.3L motor) rod the
-> same width? It must be or this would not be an alternative.

The Pinto rods are wider. That's no problem - just narrow them to the
desired width when rebuilding them. The rod bearings have to be
modified slightly too, no problem either.

It's when rods are too *narrow* that you have trouble. You start
bleeding oil all over the place, and upsetting the ring seal.


-> not custom Crowler or such (>$600). I think the 318 sounds like a
-> very good build up, good rod ratio with very strong rods with off the
-> shelf parts (except for some machine work on the crank).

Yep, looks that way to me, too. Just a little extra work here and
there for a little more displacement and lots more beef.


-> I don't
-> understand what you mean about the dished pistons though. Wouldn't
-> you need custom pistons with a smaller pin to deck height?

Right! When you're swapping rods, pistons, and whatnot around, you
have to be in the general ballpark range for everything to fit. One
neat trick when you need to move the pin up is to use a dish-top piston.
Some of them have dishes as much as .125 deep, so what you have is
basically a flat top with a rim. Cut the rim off and you effectively
move the pin up.

You can fudge a little elsewhere. The deck of the piston can be
thinned a bit, or you can use thicker head gaskets or open chamber heads
and let the piston protrude slightly. The rod length can be adjusted by
offset bushing or boring the small end, or shortening at the big end.
You can offset the crank a little either way to get the stack right.

This all sounds like a lot of work, and it is - the first time. After
that and you know what you need, it doesn't cost much more than a
standard rebuild. That's why I get tickled at some of the inflated
prices in the magazines.


-> It looks like a big job is stroking a motor is finding a good rod.

Right. And with the 302, there aren't many other rods near the right
length. The 400 Chevy uses a 5.56 rod which you can swap in, but it
requires custom 1.13 pistons that'll run you near $600/set, same as the
400M rods in a 351W.