Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: mustangpaul (Paul Sawyer)

Hi all--

Went to a show today and noticed that I have several pressure leaks in the
ol' radiator. Pulled it and boiled it out about 3 years ago. It's a four
core Ford. The car runs hotter than I'd like--about 3/4 of the way across
the gauge when it is hot outside. (Which is most of the time!)

I'm thinking of aluminum since it gets hotter than the hinges of hell down
here in down south Louisiana. Anyone have any experiences, good or bad,
with any particular brand? I'd like one that drops right in without mods.
Can Alum. rads be patched if I get a pin hole? Doesn't someone make a rad
that looks like the original but is alum?

While I'm recklessly spending money, thoughts on ditching my ford fan and
fan clutch for a flex fan with a spacer? I have the Ford shroud--will a
flex fan fit? I remember someone saying that they were loud. I know that
they'll whack off a finger pretty easily.

Anyway, let's hear your thoughts, good or bad. (Which includes "get a life,
Paul, and just fix what you have now."

--Paul
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Mail From: 69stang11 (Eric Haack)

Hey Paul,
If you are into recklessly spending money, check this out cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Aluminum-Radiator-67-70-Ford-Mustang-DUAL-FANS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33602QQihZ020QQitemZ300225740441QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Sawyer
To: Eric
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 5:26 PM
Subject: [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions


Hi all--

Went to a show today and noticed that I have several pressure leaks in the ol' radiator. Pulled it and boiled it out about 3 years ago. It's a four core Ford. The car runs hotter than I'd like--about 3/4 of the way across the gauge when it is hot outside. (Which is most of the time!)

I'm thinking of aluminum since it gets hotter than the hinges of hell down here in down south Louisiana. Anyone have any experiences, good or bad, with any particular brand? I'd like one that drops right in without mods. Can Alum. rads be patched if I get a pin hole? Doesn't someone make a rad that looks like the original but is alum?

While I'm recklessly spending money, thoughts on ditching my ford fan and fan clutch for a flex fan with a spacer? I have the Ford shroud--will a flex fan fit? I remember someone saying that they were loud. I know that they'll whack off a finger pretty easily.

Anyway, let's hear your thoughts, good or bad. (Which includes "get a life, Paul, and just fix what you have now."

--Paul




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
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Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
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Mail From: mustangpaul (Paul Sawyer)

E--

Cool! (Har har)

Forgot to say that I need a setup for a 66. Do those electric fans pull
much current? Can the original alternators handle 'em?

--P


On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Eric Haack <69stang11 at charter.net> wrote:

> Hey Paul,
> If you are into recklessly spending money, check this out
> cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Aluminum-Radiator-67-70-Ford-Mustang-DUAL-FANS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33602QQihZ020QQitemZ300225740441QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
>
>
> Eric
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Paul Sawyer <mustangpaul at gmail.com>
> *To:* Eric <69stang11 at charter.net>
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 25, 2008 5:26 PM
> *Subject:* [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions
>
> Hi all--
>
> Went to a show today and noticed that I have several pressure leaks in the
> ol' radiator. Pulled it and boiled it out about 3 years ago. It's a four
> core Ford. The car runs hotter than I'd like--about 3/4 of the way across
> the gauge when it is hot outside. (Which is most of the time!)
>
> I'm thinking of aluminum since it gets hotter than the hinges of hell down
> here in down south Louisiana. Anyone have any experiences, good or bad,
> with any particular brand? I'd like one that drops right in without mods.
> Can Alum. rads be patched if I get a pin hole? Doesn't someone make a rad
> that looks like the original but is alum?
>
> While I'm recklessly spending money, thoughts on ditching my ford fan and
> fan clutch for a flex fan with a spacer? I have the Ford shroud--will a
> flex fan fit? I remember someone saying that they were loud. I know that
> they'll whack off a finger pretty easily.
>
> Anyway, let's hear your thoughts, good or bad. (Which includes "get a
> life, Paul, and just fix what you have now."
>
> --Paul
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/<sauce.donair.org/%7Ecm/>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/<sauce.donair.org/%7Ecm/>
>
>
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Mail From: 69stang11 (Eric Haack)

Paul,
Honestly, I don't know. I haven't got to that point in my restoration yet. I'm at the front suspension part right now. But, I will be going with the aluminum rad. with electric fan(s) when I get there. I'm converting to the high amp. 1 wire alt. to handle all my power consumption. Heck, my stock alt. couldn't handle my stereo with headlights on! hehe I can ask the seller how much power the fans pull for ya. What the hay....I'll send him a question and get back when he replies.

Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Sawyer
To: Eric
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions


E--

Cool! (Har har)

Forgot to say that I need a setup for a 66. Do those electric fans pull much current? Can the original alternators handle 'em?

--P



On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Eric Haack <69stang11 at charter.net> wrote:

Hey Paul,
If you are into recklessly spending money, check this out cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Aluminum-Radiator-67-70-Ford-Mustang-DUAL-FANS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33602QQihZ020QQitemZ300225740441QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Sawyer
To: Eric
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 5:26 PM
Subject: [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions


Hi all--

Went to a show today and noticed that I have several pressure leaks in the ol' radiator. Pulled it and boiled it out about 3 years ago. It's a four core Ford. The car runs hotter than I'd like--about 3/4 of the way across the gauge when it is hot outside. (Which is most of the time!)

I'm thinking of aluminum since it gets hotter than the hinges of hell down here in down south Louisiana. Anyone have any experiences, good or bad, with any particular brand? I'd like one that drops right in without mods. Can Alum. rads be patched if I get a pin hole? Doesn't someone make a rad that looks like the original but is alum?

While I'm recklessly spending money, thoughts on ditching my ford fan and fan clutch for a flex fan with a spacer? I have the Ford shroud--will a flex fan fit? I remember someone saying that they were loud. I know that they'll whack off a finger pretty easily.

Anyway, let's hear your thoughts, good or bad. (Which includes "get a life, Paul, and just fix what you have now."

--Paul




--------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Classic-mustangs mailing list
Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/


_______________________________________________
Classic-mustangs mailing list
Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Classic-mustangs mailing list
Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
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Mail From: mustang (Brandon Peskin)


On May 25, 2008, at 5:26 PM, Paul Sawyer wrote:

> While I'm recklessly spending money, thoughts on ditching my ford
> fan and fan clutch for a flex fan with a spacer? I have the Ford
> shroud--will a flex fan fit? I remember someone saying that they
> were loud. I know that they'll whack off a finger pretty easily.


I've got the flex fan without problem; other than I think I need a
shroud to go with it.

Yes, wear gloves when installing it/working around it. VERY sharp. It
tears rubber gloves and skin like nobodys business even when stationary.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: 69stang11 (Eric Haack)

Cool! (Har har)

Forgot to say that I need a setup for a 66. Do those electric fans pull much current? Can the original alternators handle 'em?


Hi Paul,
Got a reply on the power consumption on those fans. They pull 30 - 35 amps for the pair. Our old alts. would have a hard time with A/C, dual fans, lights, stereo and whatnot. Time to upgrade for sure if we decide to go that route.
Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Haack
To: Eric
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions


Paul,
Honestly, I don't know. I haven't got to that point in my restoration yet. I'm at the front suspension part right now. But, I will be going with the aluminum rad. with electric fan(s) when I get there. I'm converting to the high amp. 1 wire alt. to handle all my power consumption. Heck, my stock alt. couldn't handle my stereo with headlights on! hehe I can ask the seller how much power the fans pull for ya. What the hay....I'll send him a question and get back when he replies.

Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Sawyer
To: Eric
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions


E--




On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Eric Haack <69stang11 at charter.net> wrote:

Hey Paul,
If you are into recklessly spending money, check this out cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Aluminum-Radiator-67-70-Ford-Mustang-DUAL-FANS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33602QQihZ020QQitemZ300225740441QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

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Mail From: shawkins777 (Steve Hawkins)

Go to National Parts Depot, they should have an assembly to fit your 66. I
bought one for my 68, it include everything to mount it and wire it incuding
a thermostate. Although I did end up using a temperature sensor in the
cooling water outlet to start the fan.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Eric
Haack
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 1:04 PM
To: shawkins777 at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions


Cool! (Har har)

Forgot to say that I need a setup for a 66. Do those electric fans pull
much current? Can the original alternators handle 'em?


Hi Paul,
Got a reply on the power consumption on those fans. They pull 30 - 35 amps
for the pair. Our old alts. would have a hard time with A/C, dual fans,
lights, stereo and whatnot. Time to upgrade for sure if we decide to go that
route.

Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric <mailto:69stang11 at charter.net> Haack
To: Eric <mailto:69stang11 at charter.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions

Paul,
Honestly, I don't know. I haven't got to that point in my restoration yet.
I'm at the front suspension part right now. But, I will be going with the
aluminum rad. with electric fan(s) when I get there. I'm converting to the
high amp. 1 wire alt. to handle all my power consumption. Heck, my stock
alt. couldn't handle my stereo with headlights on! hehe I can ask the seller
how much power the fans pull for ya. What the hay....I'll send him a
question and get back when he replies.

Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul <mailto:mustangpaul at gmail.com> Sawyer
To: Eric <mailto:69stang11 at charter.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions

E--




On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Eric Haack <69stang11 at charter.net> wrote:


Hey Paul,
If you are into recklessly spending money, check this out
cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Aluminum-Radiator-67-70-Ford-Mustang-DUAL
-FANS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33602QQihZ020QQitemZ300225740441QQrdZ1QQssp
agenameZWDVW



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Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)

I've dealt with a lot of cooling problems here in Houston. Here's my
$.02.



I don't like flex fans since while they will cool the car, they take a
lot of HP to turn. If the right solution was this simple, Ford would
have done it this way in the first place. A flex fan is a lot cheaper
to build than a thermostatically controlled clutch and a fan with
correctly designed efficient fan blades. Hot rod, etc. have run tests
and showed significant (about 10-15 hp IIRC) drag by flex fans Vs. stock
fans with a thermostatic clutch at high RPM. Make sure to use a
clutched fan since no clutch = even more drag.



I used a three core brass radiator in my modified '68 for years, but one
thing it taught me is _get a shroud!_ Take your hand and put it in
front of a box fan. Then put it behind the box fan. It's obvious from
this experiment that pushed air is much more directional than pulled
air. The suction side has no directionality, and if you were air and
had the chance to circulate freely around the blades from the back to
the front, or go through the fairly restrictive radiator fins, which
would you choose?



The second thing I've found is that normally aftermarket fans are not
very good. The blades are often made for dual direction capability
(pulling or pushing by reversing the motor polarity). Take this as a bad
sign because fan blades cannot be correctly designed this way for
efficient and quiet operation. OEM fans are almost always better since
they were designed for purpose, not marketing. This is why aftermarket
fans often take way more current and make a lot more noise than they
have to. Plus they cost a lot more. Some aftermarket fans that were
designed by companies that also design OEM fans (SPAL?) may be an
exception to this rule.



I'm currently using a Griffin aluminum radiator. Because I wanted to
maximize my cooling and minimize my cost, I bought the largest one I
could fit between the frame rails (27.5" wide, 19" tall), but a generic
one that only cost me $160. I then fitted the dual fan setup from a
Corvette (V8 Camaro/FIrebird fans are the same) with a custom aluminum
shroud. Total cost was $240 not including a thermostatic switch which I
haven't installed yet.



It took me a while to make, but it works like a champ. The OEM Corvette
fans move a lot of air, are very quiet, and take only 8 amps (measured
this myself) each after startup. My stock electrical system has no
problem providing enough power for one fan, but is a little marginal
with two. It's not a matter of being able to put out the power, since
it has no problem with that, but putting out enough power at idle to
keep the battery voltage where it should be is difficult for it.



This is fine though, since I've never even needed the second fan while
driving on the street. Maybe if I autocrossed it or something I'd need
the other fan. My gauge stays right at 185 all the time if the fan is
on.



Also I really like the high performance coolant thermostats. They open
and close fast and at the right temp, much better than the stock type
thermostats. They're pretty cheap (<$20), get one if replacing the
stock thermostat.



In summary:

1. Stay away from flex fans because they suck too much HP (tests in
Hot Rod and other magazines confirm this) Vs. stock fans with clutches.
2. Use a shroud or ~40% of your fan's capability is wasted.
3. Get a "high performance" coolant thermostat.
4. Use OEM electric fans (2 from a V6 or 1 from a V8 application)
if you want electric fans and you probably won't have to upgrade your
alternator.



Keven

________________________________

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Eric
Haack
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 1:04 PM
To: Coates, Keven
Subject: Re: [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions



Cool! (Har har)

Forgot to say that I need a setup for a 66. Do those electric fans pull
much current? Can the original alternators handle 'em?

Hi Paul,

Got a reply on the power consumption on those fans. They pull 30 - 35
amps for the pair. Our old alts. would have a hard time with A/C, dual
fans, lights, stereo and whatnot. Time to upgrade for sure if we decide
to go that route.

Eric



-------------- next part --------------
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Mail From: mustangpaul (Paul Sawyer)

K--

Thanks for the input! I appreciate it!

-Paul


On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Coates, Keven <keven at ti.com> wrote:

> I've dealt with a lot of cooling problems here in Houston. Here's my
> $.02.
>
>
>
> I don't like flex fans since while they will cool the car, they take a lot
> of HP to turn. If the right solution was this simple, Ford would have done
> it this way in the first place. A flex fan is a lot cheaper to build than a
> thermostatically controlled clutch and a fan with correctly designed
> efficient fan blades. Hot rod, etc. have run tests and showed significant
> (about 10-15 hp IIRC) drag by flex fans Vs. stock fans with a thermostatic
> clutch at high RPM. Make sure to use a clutched fan since no clutch = even
> more drag.
>
>
>
> I used a three core brass radiator in my modified '68 for years, but one
> thing it taught me is _*get a shroud!*_ Take your hand and put it in
> front of a box fan. Then put it behind the box fan. It's obvious from this
> experiment that pushed air is much more directional than pulled air. The
> suction side has no directionality, and if you were air and had the chance
> to circulate freely around the blades from the back to the front, or go
> through the fairly restrictive radiator fins, which would you choose?
>
>
>
> The second thing I've found is that normally aftermarket fans are not very
> good. The blades are often made for dual direction capability (pulling or
> pushing by reversing the motor polarity). Take this as a bad sign because
> fan blades cannot be correctly designed this way for efficient and quiet
> operation. OEM fans are almost always better since they were designed for
> purpose, not marketing. This is why aftermarket fans often take way more
> current and make a lot more noise than they have to. Plus they cost a lot
> more. Some aftermarket fans that were designed by companies that also
> design OEM fans (SPAL?) may be an exception to this rule.
>
>
>
> I'm currently using a Griffin aluminum radiator. Because I wanted to
> maximize my cooling and minimize my cost, I bought the largest one I could
> fit between the frame rails (27.5" wide, 19" tall), but a generic one that
> only cost me $160. I then fitted the dual fan setup from a Corvette (V8
> Camaro/FIrebird fans are the same) with a custom aluminum shroud. Total
> cost was $240 not including a thermostatic switch which I haven't installed
> yet.
>
>
>
> It took me a while to make, but it works like a champ. The OEM Corvette
> fans move a lot of air, are very quiet, and take only 8 amps (measured this
> myself) each after startup. My stock electrical system has no problem
> providing enough power for one fan, but is a little marginal with two. It's
> not a matter of being able to put out the power, since it has no problem
> with that, but putting out enough power at idle to keep the battery voltage
> where it should be is difficult for it.
>
>
>
> This is fine though, since I've never even needed the second fan while
> driving on the street. Maybe if I autocrossed it or something I'd need the
> other fan. My gauge stays right at 185 all the time if the fan is on.
>
>
>
> Also I really like the high performance coolant thermostats. They open and
> close fast and at the right temp, much better than the stock type
> thermostats. They're pretty cheap (<$20), get one if replacing the stock
> thermostat.
>
>
>
> In summary:
>
> 1. Stay away from flex fans because they suck too much HP (tests in Hot
> Rod and other magazines confirm this) Vs. stock fans with clutches.
> 2. Use a shroud or ~40% of your fan's capability is wasted.
> 3. Get a "high performance" coolant thermostat.
> 4. Use OEM electric fans (2 from a V6 or 1 from a V8 application) if
> you want electric fans and you probably won't have to upgrade your
> alternator.
>
>
>
> Keven
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca [mailto:
> classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] *On Behalf Of *Eric Haack
> *Sent:* Monday, May 26, 2008 1:04 PM
> *To:* Coates, Keven
> *Subject:* Re: [CM] Radiator and Flex Fan opinions
>
>
>
> Cool! (Har har)
>
> Forgot to say that I need a setup for a 66. Do those electric fans pull
> much current? Can the original alternators handle 'em?
>
> *Hi Paul,*
>
> * Got a reply on the power consumption on those fans. They pull 30 - 35
> amps for the pair. Our old alts. would have a hard time with A/C, dual fans,
> lights, stereo and whatnot*. *Time to upgrade for sure if we decide to go
> that route.*
>
> *Eric*
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/<sauce.donair.org/%7Ecm/>
>
>
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