Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: psawyer (psawyer

W--

Good point. Here we go.

The last few times it has died, the car immediately fired up without a
problem--slide the selector into N, it fires, and off I go. Today, it backfired
through the muffler. When I tried to restart it, it didn't want to start until
about the 4th or 5th time to the point that I had coasted to an almost complete
stop. I turned around and went home. It ran rough, but no backfiring, the
whole way. Put it in the garage and closed the door!

If it was a timing issue, wouldn't it run rough all the time? Before it
backfired, and even when it would randomly die, it would run fine right up to
the point that it shut itself off.

I plan to pull the plugs tonight, if I get home in time, and see what they have
to say. I guess I should probably replace them if I pull them. I have a new
motorcraft dizzy cap in my parts stash that I may put on and see if that makes a
difference, too.

--Paul

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Mail From: dano (Dan O'Reilly)

To me, you're describing timing problems. When I first started the 71 Mach
I'm restoring, I had some real timing problems, and it ran exactly the way
you describe - a backfire or two, rough running, etc.

At 10:27 AM 9/26/2007, psawyer at i-55.com wrote:
>W--
>
>Good point. Here we go.
>
>The last few times it has died, the car immediately fired up without a
>problem--slide the selector into N, it fires, and off I go. Today, it
>backfired
>through the muffler. When I tried to restart it, it didn't want to start
>until
>about the 4th or 5th time to the point that I had coasted to an almost
>complete
>stop. I turned around and went home. It ran rough, but no backfiring, the
>whole way. Put it in the garage and closed the door!
>
>If it was a timing issue, wouldn't it run rough all the time? Before it
>backfired, and even when it would randomly die, it would run fine right up to
>the point that it shut itself off.
>
>I plan to pull the plugs tonight, if I get home in time, and see what they
>have
>to say. I guess I should probably replace them if I pull them. I have a new
>motorcraft dizzy cap in my parts stash that I may put on and see if that
>makes a
>difference, too.

---

Dan O'Reilly
1966 Nightmist Blue Pony Coupe
1971 Bright Red Mach 1
2002 Black Deluxe Convertible
Colorado Springs, CO

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Mail From: michael.dinn (Michael 'Moose' Dinn)

Running rough the whole way would say timing to me.

Running perfectly after dying... that doesn't sound like timing.


> To me, you're describing timing problems. When I first started the 71 Mach
> I'm restoring, I had some real timing problems, and it ran exactly the way
> you describe - a backfire or two, rough running, etc.
> >The last few times it has died, the car immediately fired up without a
> >problem--slide the selector into N, it fires, and off I go. Today, it
> >backfired
> >through the muffler. When I tried to restart it, it didn't want to start
> >until
> >about the 4th or 5th time to the point that I had coasted to an almost
> >complete
> >stop. I turned around and went home. It ran rough, but no backfiring, the
> >whole way. Put it in the garage and closed the door!

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: psawyer (psawyer

D--

I have a timing light, so I can check that out. Maybe it jumped time this
morning and that caused the problems--dying, backfiring and rough drive home.

It is just frustrating because this sort of stuff never happens when you don't
have a place you want to go. Grrrr.

--P

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: 69stang11 (Eric Haack)

Are you running an electronic ignition? I had the exact same problem when my
Mallory Unilite was going out. An occasional backfire and ran rough,
although she did have her good moments. Replaced module, ($90.00 later), and
she ran great!

Eric
69 Sportsroof


----- Original Message -----
From: <psawyer at i-55.com>
To: "Eric" <69stang11 at charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:27 AM
Subject: [CM] It Continues, Clarification


> W--
>
> Good point. Here we go.
>
> The last few times it has died, the car immediately fired up without a
> problem--slide the selector into N, it fires, and off I go. Today, it
> backfired
> through the muffler. When I tried to restart it, it didn't want to start
> until
> about the 4th or 5th time to the point that I had coasted to an almost
> complete
> stop. I turned around and went home. It ran rough, but no backfiring,
> the
> whole way. Put it in the garage and closed the door!
>
> If it was a timing issue, wouldn't it run rough all the time? Before it
> backfired, and even when it would randomly die, it would run fine right up
> to
> the point that it shut itself off.
>
> I plan to pull the plugs tonight, if I get home in time, and see what they
> have
> to say. I guess I should probably replace them if I pull them. I have a
> new
> motorcraft dizzy cap in my parts stash that I may put on and see if that
> makes a
> difference, too.
>
> --Paul
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: PSAWYER (Paul Sawyer)

E--

How long does one of these last? Ours is about 16 years old,
possibly older.

-P

On Sep 26, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Eric Haack wrote:

> Are you running an electronic ignition? I had the exact same
> problem when my
> Mallory Unilite was going out. An occasional backfire and ran rough,
> although she did have her good moments. Replaced module, ($90.00
> later), and
> she ran great!
>
> Eric
> 69 Sportsroof
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: 69stang11 (Eric Haack)

I usually get about 7-8 years on the Mallory module. That's being a daily
driver. There is a way to test it. I'll do a write-up. I have the Mallory
test procedure here in front of me. 16 years?? WOW, got your monies worth!

Eric


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Sawyer" <PSAWYER at i-55.com>
To: "Eric" <69stang11 at charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] It Continues, Clarification


> E--
>
> How long does one of these last? Ours is about 16 years old,
> possibly older.
>
> -P
>
> On Sep 26, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Eric Haack wrote:
>
>> Are you running an electronic ignition? I had the exact same
>> problem when my
>> Mallory Unilite was going out. An occasional backfire and ran rough,
>> although she did have her good moments. Replaced module, ($90.00
>> later), and
>> she ran great!
>>
>> Eric
>> 69 Sportsroof
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mahilly (Mike H)

Thinking out of the box - perhaps a bad vacuum (or mechanical) advance,
which only malfunctions sometimes, thus throwing off your timing when it
does??????????????

On 9/26/07, psawyer at i-55.com <psawyer at i-55.com> wrote:
>
> W--
>
> Good point. Here we go.
>
> The last few times it has died, the car immediately fired up without a
> problem--slide the selector into N, it fires, and off I go. Today, it
> backfired
> through the muffler. When I tried to restart it, it didn't want to start
> until
> about the 4th or 5th time to the point that I had coasted to an almost
> complete
> stop. I turned around and went home. It ran rough, but no backfiring,
> the
> whole way. Put it in the garage and closed the door!
>
> If it was a timing issue, wouldn't it run rough all the time? Before it
> backfired, and even when it would randomly die, it would run fine right up
> to
> the point that it shut itself off.
>
> I plan to pull the plugs tonight, if I get home in time, and see what they
> have
> to say. I guess I should probably replace them if I pull them. I have a
> new
> motorcraft dizzy cap in my parts stash that I may put on and see if that
> makes a
> difference, too.
>
> --Paul
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mkupec (Michael J. Kupec)

FWIW - I installed a Unilite back in 1979 on my 65 - along with a MSD6AL and
a Mallory HyFire coil (no longer made). To this day they are all still
running great - only big issue with that car is the carburetor keeps getting
gummed up because I don't drive it or run the engine enough lately. I got to
get the disc brakes installed on it and put it back on the road.

Can't say the same for the DuraSpark system on my Bronco - that setup keeps
eating ignition modules! Can't wait to get the MegaSquirt EFI system
installed on it along with the EDIS setup for ignition.

Michael J. Kupec
mkupec at blueovalcorral.com
blueovalcorral.com

"If you would not be forgotten as soon as you are dead and rotten, either
write something worth reading or do things worth the writing." - Benjamin
Franklin



> -----Original Message-----
> From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
> [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On
> Behalf Of Eric Haack
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:18 PM
> To: Michael J. Kupec
> Subject: Re: [CM] It Continues, Clarification
>
> I usually get about 7-8 years on the Mallory module. That's
> being a daily driver. There is a way to test it. I'll do a
> write-up. I have the Mallory test procedure here in front of
> me. 16 years?? WOW, got your monies worth!
>
> Eric
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Sawyer" <PSAWYER at i-55.com>
> To: "Eric" <69stang11 at charter.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [CM] It Continues, Clarification
>
>
> > E--
> >
> > How long does one of these last? Ours is about 16 years old,
> > possibly older.
> >
> > -P
> >
> > On Sep 26, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Eric Haack wrote:
> >
> >> Are you running an electronic ignition? I had the exact same
> >> problem when my
> >> Mallory Unilite was going out. An occasional backfire and
> ran rough,
> >> although she did have her good moments. Replaced module, ($90.00
> >> later), and
> >> she ran great!
> >>
> >> Eric
> >> 69 Sportsroof
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Classic-mustangs mailing list
> > Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> > lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
> >
> > Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)

Mine died every 5 years (or about every 60K miles) like clockwork.
That's why I abandoned it and switched to the pertronix replacement for
the Unilite module. It's about the same price, but I'm hoping it will
last longer.

One factor someone told me about the Mallory (after I had switched) was
that they have a power filter module you're supposed to use. They say
without this the power may have spikes, etc. that will damage the
module.

As an electrical engineer my reaction was a look of shock. Why would a
company like Mallory not make their module robust as it is? This shock
and spike protection should be built in! Every OEM piece of electronics
in a modern car is tested by many different tests, and exposed to
voltages over 100 volts (for very short spikes). Why aren't these
modules built to something remotely close to this level of quality? I
would expect that from Mallory, but apparently they are not.

The filter module costs $30, and I guess it's a good idea. Time will
tell if I have the same problems with my Pertronix.

Keven

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mkupec (Michael J. Kupec)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
> [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On
> Behalf Of Coates, Keven
>
> As an electrical engineer my reaction was a look of shock.
> Why would a company like Mallory not make their module robust
> as it is? This shock and spike protection should be built
> in! Every OEM piece of electronics in a modern car is tested
> by many different tests, and exposed to voltages over 100
> volts (for very short spikes). Why aren't these modules
> built to something remotely close to this level of quality?
> I would expect that from Mallory, but apparently they are not.

As an electrical engineer, you would expect that, but remember in design
engineering, your goal is to design the item as cheaply as possible with the
bare minimum of parts to get the job done! Typically, you design something
with the idea that it needs all the special bells and whistles, then start
removing parts deemed unnecessary until it quits working. I saw this a lot
in the good old days of tube radios. I'd have several old console chassis on
the bench looking at how they were all designed and saw that the higher
priced units had more parts in certain circuits that the cheaper ones
lacked. All the radios did the same thing, they received a signal, amplified
it and played it through a speaker, but the better radios would have better
selectivity and noise rejection. Add the missing components to the cheap
radios and they worked as nice as the expensive ones.

Mallory probably figures that the current Unilite unit works fine for about
75% of the cars out there, then there are the other 25% that need the extra
filtering. Newer Unilite made today are probably not made as well as ones of
yesterday and that's what I seem to see here. Those who have recently bought
a Unilite have had problems with it that only the filter kit seems to fix. I
don't recall ever seeing a filter kit listed back when I bought mine and at
the time I had free reign of a parts counter collection of catalogs to go
through. All I recall was that on one page was the Unilite module and on the
adjacent page was the matching coil. I ran that setup for about a year then
added the MSD6AL.

Michael J. Kupec
mkupec at blueovalcorral.com
blueovalcorral.com

There are 10 types of people in this world,
those who understand binary, and those who don't.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)


>As an electrical engineer, you would expect that, but remember in
design
engineering, your goal is to design the item as cheaply as possible with
the
bare minimum of parts to get the job done!

Right, but this protection isn't super expensive. I would have thought
a company like Mallory would be concerned about its reputation a little
more than this.

As far as the older ones being more resistant to this kind of stuff, I
understand that point.

As silicon technology shrinks transistor size every year, the new ones
work faster, at lower voltages with less power. For the most part
that's a great thing. Cheaper, faster, more efficient! Unfortunately
one side effect is increased sensitivity to higher voltage destruction.
Every year our ESD tests (designed to test sensitivity to static and
high voltages) get harder to pass for this reason.

This just enhances the need to design the thing with the correct
protection in the first place. This is why I'll use an OEM component if
I can. The tests they have to endure electrically are extremely harsh
(48V for over a second!). Few, if any, aftermarket devices are tested
to this level.

Of course, sometimes even this doesn't catch stuff. Your experiences
with Duraspark show this. Sometimes even more extreme conditions can
happen by accident, or component quality can vary too much.

I admit this is a tangent. I'll stop now and return you all to your
regularly scheduled Mustang talk!

Keven

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: 69stang11 (Eric Haack)

I purchased the inline power filter for mine, (it's only been 3 years), and
so far, so good. I also have one on my 70 F250, (390ci Edelbrock top end
Thorley Headers, Rhodes lifters, which are very noisy after warm-up, (total
sleeper haha) and it has 8 years on it with the filter. Ran a test on the
module and it's still within specs. I agree....why didn't they build a
filter in the module. Just another part for the consumer to buy?

Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: "Coates, Keven" <keven at ti.com>
To: "Eric" <69stang11 at charter.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [CM] It Continues, Clarification


> Mine died every 5 years (or about every 60K miles) like clockwork.
> That's why I abandoned it and switched to the pertronix replacement for
> the Unilite module. It's about the same price, but I'm hoping it will
> last longer.
>
> One factor someone told me about the Mallory (after I had switched) was
> that they have a power filter module you're supposed to use. They say
> without this the power may have spikes, etc. that will damage the
> module.
>
> As an electrical engineer my reaction was a look of shock. Why would a
> company like Mallory not make their module robust as it is? This shock
> and spike protection should be built in! Every OEM piece of electronics
> in a modern car is tested by many different tests, and exposed to
> voltages over 100 volts (for very short spikes). Why aren't these
> modules built to something remotely close to this level of quality? I
> would expect that from Mallory, but apparently they are not.
>
> The filter module costs $30, and I guess it's a good idea. Time will
> tell if I have the same problems with my Pertronix.
>
> Keven
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: JCool289 (Jason)

i had a similar problem with my first car.....an AMC eagle (dont laugh). it
would die and start right back up...no problem. turned out to be a piece of
grass in the fuel filter. the grass would get lodged and cut off the fuel
supply. when the engine died , the suction stopped, allowing the grass to
float away from the opening until it found its way there again.

Jason
----- Original Message -----
From: <psawyer at i-55.com>
To: <JCOOL289 at aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: [CM] It Continues, Clarification


> D--
>
> I have a timing light, so I can check that out. Maybe it jumped time this
> morning and that caused the problems--dying, backfiring and rough drive
> home.
>
> It is just frustrating because this sort of stuff never happens when you
> don't
> have a place you want to go. Grrrr.
>
> --P
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: abesfate (Abraham Miller)

heh - I thought of the same thing... and looking into it, the fuel filter is right next to the carb.. easy check/replacement on this car.



Jason <JCool289 at aol.com> wrote:
i had a similar problem with my first car.....an AMC eagle (dont laugh). it
would die and start right back up...no problem. turned out to be a piece of
grass in the fuel filter. the grass would get lodged and cut off the fuel
supply. when the engine died , the suction stopped, allowing the grass to
float away from the opening until it found its way there again.

Jason
----- Original Message -----
From:

To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: [CM] It Continues, Clarification


> D--
>
> I have a timing light, so I can check that out. Maybe it jumped time this
> morning and that caused the problems--dying, backfiring and rough drive
> home.
>
> It is just frustrating because this sort of stuff never happens when you
> don't
> have a place you want to go. Grrrr.
>
> --P
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>

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