Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: Bill Bressler (email redacted)

I have been following NASCAR for 25 years, so I may have a little "fan"
knowledge. The Ford engines use SVO blocks and SVO (Yates) heads. Most
other parts are speed shop (top dollar, like titanium) stuff except for
the camshafts and headers which are custom. Last figure I heard is that
a Winston Cup engine is about $35k complete (350 - 358ci, 750 hp @ 8800
RPM). Since the engine builders are now limited as to how much they can
modify the heads, I've heard the Yates are about $10k pair, ready to
race (most of the work is now CNC and they can get prepare a lot more
heads than they used to). Old Prices were $25k and they lasted about
two races.) The Yates heads are modified Cleveland and do not have
splayed valves. That is, although not all the valves line up in a row
like a Windsor, there are no canted valves (the intake and exhaust
valves are parallel to each other) like the Cleveland (intake and
exhaust valves are angled toward their respected port). The canted
valves caused alot of reliability problems and were machined out when
the rules allowed, thus the $25k pair pricing.

BTY, Chebbys are now using the SB2 engine, which looks alot like
the Yates head.

I had a 69 Boss 302 with 4:10 gears, most eveything else stock. I would
like to have another. If you like no torque below 2500-3000 RPMS,
adjusting valves, and an RPM limit of about 7200 stock (where the cam
starts to fall off), then go for the BOSS, otherwise if yo want an
engine that has lower maintenance, easier to drive on the street, I
would go for a 351W with some new aluminum heads etc. But listen to
those solid lifters ...

My two cents...

Bill

92 SC
68 GT-500


>
> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:57:17 -0800
> From: "Watkins, Paul" <(email redacted)>
> To: "'(email redacted)'"
> Subject: RE: 9423] Re: Ideal mild street performance: Boss 302 vs. 351W
> Message-ID: <81163A0F24A5D011ADBB00805FC12BF428EE8A@N7001CMX>
>
> I am by no means a NASCAR expert but I have some friends which live and
> die NASCAR and it seems to me they said the heads used by NASCAR teams
> are custom engineered. As I said I really don't know for sure but if
> you've got a hundred grand to plunk down on a motor I'm sure there's a
> lot of one-off engineering
>
> > ----------
> > From: Bill Lynch[SMTPemail redacted)]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 1:10 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list
> > Subject: [CM:9423] Re: Ideal mild street performance: Boss 302
> > vs. 351W
> >
> > All this talk of 302 vs 351 and Windsor vs Cleveland has led me to
> > ask:
> >
> > Has anyone here had experience with any of the stroker kits I see
> > advertised so much lately? The idea of taking a 302 to 347-355 cubic
> > inches
> > or a 351W to 426 sounds like a whole lot of fun.
> >
> > Also, considering the Cleveland heads with their canted valves were
> > supposed to be tons better than standard Windsor heads back in the
> > late
> > '60s; how do they compare with the multitude of aftermarket
> > performance
> > heads that are available now?
> >
> > I would think that modern performance "Windsor" heads would run
> > better
> > than the Clevelands if only from better porting. And I also believe
> > that
> > aluminum heads would allow one to run a higher compression ratio with
> > pump
> > gas, due to the more efficient heat transfer.
> >
> > What do they run at NASCAR? Are they cast Windsor heads, cast
> > Cleveland
> > heads, or aluminum?
> >
> > I have a feeling that a 302 punched up to 347 with 10:1 and aluminum
> > aftermarket heads would outrun a 351 Cleveland. I'm basing part of
> > this
> > assumption on the lighter weight of the 302 although the 351C would
> > probably
> > have an advantage in intake manifold runner length.
> >
> >
> > --Besides, a stroked 302 [with matching numbers] could look very, very
> > stock
> > in a '65 ;-)
> >
> > Thanks for any feedback, Bill L. #8^)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > archive please visit:
> >
> > antler.webworks.ca/cm
> >
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:57:00 -0500
> From: "Bill Lewis" <(email redacted)>
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: Re: Ideal mild street performance: Boss 302 vs. 351W
> Message-ID: <(email redacted)>
>
> Bill Lynch <(email redacted)> wrote:
> >
> > All this talk of 302 vs 351 and Windsor vs Cleveland has led me to ask:
> >
> > Has anyone here had experience with any of the stroker kits I see
> > advertised so much lately? The idea of taking a 302 to 347-355 cubic inches
> > or a 351W to 426 sounds like a whole lot of fun.
>
> You just need to watch out for the poor stroke/rod length ratios used
> in some of the kits. They can result in a service life of 10,000
> miles on the street.
>
>
> > Also, considering the Cleveland heads with their canted valves were
> > supposed to be tons better than standard Windsor heads back in the late
> > '60s; how do they compare with the multitude of aftermarket performance
> > heads that are available now?
>
>
> Yes, but keep in mind they were invented to get Boss 302s into Trans
> Am competition and 351C into NASCAR. The canted valve Cleveland
> heads were a ripoff of the big block Chevy, IMNSHO.
>
>
> > I would think that modern performance "Windsor" heads would run better
> > than the Clevelands if only from better porting. And I also believe that
> > aluminum heads would allow one to run a higher compression ratio with pump
> > gas, due to the more efficient heat transfer.
>
> But, don't forget the sex appeal of a Boss motor. Every Tom, Dick,
> and Harry has Twisted Flow heads on a 5.0L. But how many have a Boss?
>
>
> > What do they run at NASCAR? Are they cast Windsor heads, cast Cleveland
> > heads, or aluminum?
>
> By NASCAR, I assume you mean Winston Cup. The heads are sold by Ford
> SVO. They are Robert Yates high port cast aluminum
> psuedo-Cleveland style heads. List for $1200 each, bare. The blocks
> are also special SVO casting, sharing features of both 351C and 351W.
>
>
> > I have a feeling that a 302 punched up to 347 with 10:1 and aluminum
> > aftermarket heads would outrun a 351 Cleveland. I'm basing part of this
> > assumption on the lighter weight of the 302 although the 351C would probably
> > have an advantage in intake manifold runner length.
> >
> >
> > --Besides, a stroked 302 [with matching numbers] could look very, very stock
> > in a '65 ;-)
> >
> > Thanks for any feedback, Bill L. #8^)
>
> Bill
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information on Subscribing and Unsubscribing as well as a list
> archive please visit:
>
> antler.webworks.ca/cm
>
> ------------------------------
>
>

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