Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: ckelly (Chris Kelly)

That's the Falcon setup - the 67 Falcon has a taller radiator support than
the 70 Mustang, so the 31" sits on top of the front rails and still clears
the hood.
raceabilene.com/scratch/LT1fanB.jpg

I put a 27 x 19 in the Mustang, still needs a shroud but does OK at the
track and keeps the 351C at 200F.

raceabilene.com/misc/MustangRadA.jpg

On the Mustang, the fans turn on at 180F, t-stat is a 195. The Falcon was
running one fan always with the second turning on at 195F. When I put the
302 in there (the cars swapped engines in the spring) the one was too much
fan and tha car took forever to warm up, so I use a switch to turn the auto
control on. That setup keeps the little 302 around 180 with a 195F t-stat
in the car - even with high 90s ambient. It takes a really hot day and the
fan turned off to get the 302 up to 200F.

=====================================
Chris Kelly - ckelly at raceabilene.net
raceabilene.net/kelly/hotrod
Merkel, Texas
Member:
International Hot Rod Association
Abilene Performance Car Association
Falcon Club of America
=====================================


> -----Original Message-----
> From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
> [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On
> Behalf Of Coates, Keven
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 9:35 AM
> To: Chris Kelly
> Subject: Re: [CM] ammeter repair?
>
> That's the same fan setup I'm using! You must have somehow
> shoehorned a 31" radiator in your car? Mine is a 27" and the
> stock shroud didn't fit, so I had to custom make one out of aluminum.
>
> I usually only have one fan running. Without A/C I don't
> need two, but the A/C is coming. FYI, each fan takes 8 amps
> (they're pretty efficient).
>
> Keven
> -----Original Message-----
> A comment on batteries - both race cars use Optima red tops
> that cost over $100 each. Both are about 3 years old and are
> performing very well. I left the engine fan running for
> nerly 45 minutes and the battery still started the car.
> One of these:
> raceabilene.com/scratch/LT1fanA.jpg
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)

Chris,

That explains it! I wondered how you shoehorned such a large radiator
into your Mustang!

Great job! The quality of work you do shows your organization and
fabricating skills.

Being an electrical engineer, I'm going a little overboard and designing
a variable speed fan control for my fans. It's way overkill, but I
think it will be nice since the fan stress, electrical load, and overall
noise will be lower. It's a fun project anyway!

Keven

-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of
Chris Kelly
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 7:10 AM
To: Coates, Keven
Subject: Re: [CM] Fans

That's the Falcon setup - the 67 Falcon has a taller radiator support
than
the 70 Mustang, so the 31" sits on top of the front rails and still
clears
the hood.
raceabilene.com/scratch/LT1fanB.jpg

I put a 27 x 19 in the Mustang, still needs a shroud but does OK at the
track and keeps the 351C at 200F.

raceabilene.com/misc/MustangRadA.jpg

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mkupec (Michael J. Kupec)

> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [CM] Fans
>
> Chris,
>
> That explains it! I wondered how you shoehorned such a large
> radiator into your Mustang!
>
> Great job! The quality of work you do shows your
> organization and fabricating skills.
>
> Being an electrical engineer, I'm going a little overboard
> and designing a variable speed fan control for my fans. It's
> way overkill, but I think it will be nice since the fan
> stress, electrical load, and overall noise will be lower.
> It's a fun project anyway!
>
> Keven

Ever thought of using a Tarus 2-speed fan with a 3-4 core radiator?

I've currently got a 4-core stock sized radiator on my 65 with a Flowkooler
high-volume water pump and a Hayden 16" puller fan as the only cooling fan
and the car runs cool - sometimes even too cool in the winter. I picked up a
pair of Tarus fans to see about mounting one on the Mustang and one on my
Bronco. Bronco's going to take relocating the radiator forward some for
everything to fit, but on the Mustang, I just got to figure out how to trim
the shroud on the fam to make it fit. My intent is to use the two-speed mode
to reduce fan noise when excessive cooling isn't needed. Everything will be
driven off a MegaSquirt EFI controller, so just need to set up two outputs
form that for a pair of relays. A variable speed setup like what Volvo has
in some of their cars would be nice, it'd take some serious sized power
transistors to handle the typical 80+ amp loads of most electric fans
though! Mybe just snagging a controller out of a wrecked Volvo and getting
that to work would be simpler & cheaper - why re-design the wheel when
someone has already done the grunt work?

Michael J. Kupec
mkupec at blueovalcorral.com
blueovalcorral.com

There are 10 types of people in this world,
those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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Mail From: ckelly (Chris Kelly)

Sounds like a cool project. If I was an EE, I'd probably cook up some self
regulating temp control, with a setable target and ramp up curve to speed
engine warmup at the track. Probably tied into the oil temp, so the fan
control could "over heat" the motor a bit if needed to raise oil temp to a
preset. That's what I do manually with the on/off switch and eyeballing the
oil pressure gauge LOL. So, I'd say - no, you're not in over kill
mode...yet.

=====================================
Chris Kelly - ckelly at raceabilene.net
raceabilene.net/kelly/hotrod
Merkel, Texas
Member:
International Hot Rod Association
Abilene Performance Car Association
Falcon Club of America
=====================================


> -----Original Message-----
> From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
> [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On
> Behalf Of Coates, Keven
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:55 AM
> To: Chris Kelly
> Subject: Re: [CM] Fans
>
> Chris,
>
> That explains it! I wondered how you shoehorned such a large
> radiator into your Mustang!
>
> Great job! The quality of work you do shows your
> organization and fabricating skills.
>
> Being an electrical engineer, I'm going a little overboard
> and designing a variable speed fan control for my fans. It's
> way overkill, but I think it will be nice since the fan
> stress, electrical load, and overall noise will be lower.
> It's a fun project anyway!
>
> Keven
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: chrisstephens (chrisstephens

Are you building an H bridge (or something like that) yourself or using a pre made motor driver of some sort?

Chris


---- Chris Kelly <ckelly at raceabilene.com> wrote:
> Sounds like a cool project. If I was an EE, I'd probably cook up some self
> regulating temp control, with a setable target and ramp up curve to speed
> engine warmup at the track. Probably tied into the oil temp, so the fan
> control could "over heat" the motor a bit if needed to raise oil temp to a
> preset. That's what I do manually with the on/off switch and eyeballing the
> oil pressure gauge LOL. So, I'd say - no, you're not in over kill
> mode...yet.
>
> =====================================
> Chris Kelly - ckelly at raceabilene.net
> raceabilene.net/kelly/hotrod
> Merkel, Texas
> Member:
> International Hot Rod Association
> Abilene Performance Car Association
> Falcon Club of America
> =====================================
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
> > [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On
> > Behalf Of Coates, Keven
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:55 AM
> > To: Chris Kelly
> > Subject: Re: [CM] Fans
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > That explains it! I wondered how you shoehorned such a large
> > radiator into your Mustang!
> >
> > Great job! The quality of work you do shows your
> > organization and fabricating skills.
> >
> > Being an electrical engineer, I'm going a little overboard
> > and designing a variable speed fan control for my fans. It's
> > way overkill, but I think it will be nice since the fan
> > stress, electrical load, and overall noise will be lower.
> > It's a fun project anyway!
> >
> > Keven
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)

>Sounds like a cool project.

I'm enjoying it. Of course given all my other projects, this one is
years old, but it's actually an offshoot of another project so it
doesn't count ;-)

>If I was an EE, I'd probably cook up some self regulating temp control,
with a settable target and ramp up curve to speed engine warmup at the
track. Probably tied into the oil temp, so the fan control could "over
heat" the motor a bit if needed to raise oil temp to a preset.

Interesting idea. I never thought to measure oil temp too. I may do
that, or actually I could just program it to let the water temp go high
initially before it turns up the fan the first time.

That's the cool thing. I started doing all this in analog and it turned
into a complicated board that I could only use for this one thing.

Then I thought, "Hey, I'm a digital designer, why not use a digital
signal processor (that I get free from work since I work at Texas
Instruments) and design a multipurpose control board that will control
any DC thing I want?". It was simpler (to me) and now I can use this
board for anything I want. It's a little more expensive to build, but
it's got enough horsepower to control any automotive task I want short
of a full blown EFI system (I didn't build the peripherals for that).

Actually, I have a site that details this project and the resulting
board. It's a work in progress, and I need to update it, but it's at
www.realworlddsp.com. I'll stop self promoting now!

>That's what I do manually with the on/off switch and eyeballing the
oil pressure gauge LOL. So, I'd say - no, you're not in over kill
mode...yet.

Good, because I have further to go! This is the start of an
instrumentation system that will do datalogging and lots of monitoring.
I plan on monitoring everything from starter current to battery charge,
A/C parameters, critical engine measurements, etc. to catch trouble
before it happens. All this will be fed to stepper motor controlled
analog style gauges and some digital readouts on a screen.

Keven

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)

It's an H bridge, but it's built like two high side and two low side
MOSFET switches, so you can make it an H bridge, or you can make it four
high powered switches.

It's got built in current monitoring (using the MOSFET internal
resistance) and higher voltage MOSFET drivers for general MOSFET health.
See the schematic at www.realworlddsp.com

(really guys, I'm not trying to sell this stuff, but if you prefer for
me to take this discussion off line, let me know and I'll be happy
too!).

Keven

-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of
chrisstephens at charter.net
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:21 AM
To: Coates, Keven
Cc: Chris Kelly
Subject: Re: [CM] Fans

Are you building an H bridge (or something like that) yourself or using
a pre made motor driver of some sort?

Chris

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)

> Ever thought of using a Tarus 2-speed fan with a 3-4 core radiator?

That's what Dan Leih is using.

I liked the Camaro fans and happened to get a good price on them.

> it'd take some serious sized power
transistors to handle the typical 80+ amp loads of most electric fans
though!

That's a spike load, only for a few milliseconds most likely. My setup
can handle about 30 amps continuous, which is more than enough for the
16 amps both my fans take together. The MOSFET is rated at over 100
amps, but the circuit board traces probably won't handle that. I could
upgrade it with some wire shunts if necessary.

My controller is already done, but not packaged, and was a part of
another project I was doing anyway. It was fun.

This also goes with the instrumentation system I'm putting together. It
senses temp via three redundant digital temp sensors and communicates
over a two wire bus.

Keven

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: chrisstephens (Chris Stephens)


Thats cool man, I asked about it.
I ask because I considered trying something like
cgi.ebay.com/80-Amp-PWM-DC-MOTOR-SPEED-CONTROL-robotics_W0QQitemZ330162094970QQihZ014QQcategoryZ71393QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
once. I never tried to figure out how to control it with temp though. Was
just wondering what your thoughts and idea was.

Chris

Coates, Keven wrote:
> It's an H bridge, but it's built like two high side and two low side
> MOSFET switches, so you can make it an H bridge, or you can make it
> four high powered switches.
>
> It's got built in current monitoring (using the MOSFET internal
> resistance) and higher voltage MOSFET drivers for general MOSFET
> health. See the schematic at www.realworlddsp.com
>
> (really guys, I'm not trying to sell this stuff, but if you prefer for
> me to take this discussion off line, let me know and I'll be happy
> too!).
>
> Keven
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
> [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of
> chrisstephens at charter.net
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:21 AM
> To: Coates, Keven
> Cc: Chris Kelly
> Subject: Re: [CM] Fans
>
> Are you building an H bridge (or something like that) yourself or
> using a pre made motor driver of some sort?
>
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/