Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: Ronsoy (RonMan)

Hey guys,

I have a question....in the past few monthes I have changed my front suspension, and have noticed what I think is bump steer, I have to constantly correct for road bumps and have trouble changing lanes with out over compensating.

What I have done to the front of my 1972 mustang convertible is chnaged all the bushings, ball joints, the steering box is original and have a new one to put in but wanted to wait until I put the new motor in, new lower control arms, new shocks(koni), lowered springs(1", and stiffer(600# springs)), new wheels (aluminum cobra rims with 245/60 - 16 tires), the sway bar is stock until I get the new 1 inch bar. I want to install a front end brace across the towers, but would like to solve one problem at a time and would like your insite.

IF you guys need any more info please let me know.

Ron
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Mail From: wal (Wal Marshall)

Ron,

>I have a question....in the past few monthes I have changed
>my front suspension, and have noticed what I think is bump
>steer, I have to constantly correct for road bumps and have
>trouble changing lanes with out over compensating.

Of all that work , and assuming you have professionally reset the toe-in,
camber and caster, (get it done again somewhere else) the most likely
problem i think is incorrect wheel offset. Are the new wheels the same off
set as the old ones?

Cheers

Wal

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Mail From: walt.boeninger (Walt Boeninger)

I doubt you would notice bumpsteer when changing lanes. Unless
you have *really* deep ruts and you're *really* banging over them.

I check basics, alignmnet, etc.

I also know that my old 72 Mach I was very annoyed with
new/larger rear tires.

Walt
-----

> RonMan wrote:
>
> Hey guys,
>
> I have a question....in the past few monthes I have changed my front
> suspension, and have noticed what I think is bump steer, I have to constantly
> correct for road bumps and have trouble changing lanes with out over
> compensating.
>
> What I have done to the front of my 1972 mustang convertible is chnaged
> all the bushings, ball joints, the steering box is original and have a new one
> to put in but wanted to wait until I put the new motor in, new lower control
> arms, new shocks(koni), lowered springs(1", and stiffer(600# springs)), new
> wheels (aluminum cobra rims with 245/60 - 16 tires), the sway bar is stock
> until I get the new 1 inch bar. I want to install a front end brace across the
> towers, but would like to solve one problem at a time and would like your
> insite.
>
> IF you guys need any more info please let me know.
>
> Ron
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: chris_tann (Chris Tann)

Hi,

My understanding of bumpsteer is that it is a change in steering
geometry when the suspension is compressed - so when cornering
hard, the steering basically goes out of alignment for a short
amount of time. Bumpsteer should not effect you when changing
lanes.

What you describe sounds like toe-in - if toe-in is zero or
positive, it can cause what you describe. Is there "play" in
the steering? i.e. how much do you have to move the steering wheel
before the front wheels actually start to turn? Could be the
steering-box...

Chris.


> > RonMan wrote:
> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > I have a question....in the past few monthes I have changed my
> front
> > suspension, and have noticed what I think is bump steer, I have to
> constantly
> > correct for road bumps and have trouble changing lanes with out over
> > compensating.
> >
> > What I have done to the front of my 1972 mustang convertible is
> chnaged
> > all the bushings, ball joints, the steering box is original and have a
> new one
> > to put in but wanted to wait until I put the new motor in, new lower
> control
> > arms, new shocks(koni), lowered springs(1", and stiffer(600#
> springs)), new
> > wheels (aluminum cobra rims with 245/60 - 16 tires), the sway bar is
> stock
> > until I get the new 1 inch bar. I want to install a front end brace
> across the
> > towers, but would like to solve one problem at a time and would like
> your
> > insite.
> >
> > IF you guys need any more info please let me know.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> (email redacted)
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs


=====
***********************************************************
Chris Tann Independent Consultant
(email redacted) Walkabout Designs
phone (408) 205 6793 christann.com
***********************************************************

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: ronsoy (Ronsoy)

In response to everyone's question I had the alignment done twice before and after the changes I am not sure if the change is from the wheels or something else...I trust the guy who did the work very much...and has always did things right...but that doesn't rule that out.


It may very well be the box because I suspected problems before...and it may be aggravated by the larger wheels and tires...


Ron


----- Original Message -----
From: RonMan
To: (email redacted)
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 11:51 AM
Subject: [CM] Bump steer


Hey guys,

I have a question....in the past few monthes I have changed my front suspension, and have noticed what I think is bump steer, I have to constantly correct for road bumps and have trouble changing lanes with out over compensating.

What I have done to the front of my 1972 mustang convertible is chnaged all the bushings, ball joints, the steering box is original and have a new one to put in but wanted to wait until I put the new motor in, new lower control arms, new shocks(koni), lowered springs(1", and stiffer(600# springs)), new wheels (aluminum cobra rims with 245/60 - 16 tires), the sway bar is stock until I get the new 1 inch bar. I want to install a front end brace across the towers, but would like to solve one problem at a time and would like your insite.

IF you guys need any more info please let me know.

Ron


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Mail From: walt.boeninger (Walt Boeninger)



> Ronsoy wrote:
>
>
>
> It may very well be the box because I suspected problems before...and it may
> be aggravated by the larger wheels and tires..

Very wide sticky tires on street pavement is not a good combination.

Several year ago we had our annual convention in Willows, CA.
As part of that we did a car show in downtown, with a police
escort from the track, 7 miles.

On the way back, I nearly got tossed into the ditch because of the
Vintage goodyear race tires wanting to follow every nook and cranny
in the well-crowned state highway. It actually felt like something
was wrong with the steering..... we checked it because I freaked.
That was the only time I've ever driven the car on the street.


------
Regards

Walt Boeninger - Nor Cal SAAC 67 GT500 | 67 Shelby T-A #31
norcal-saac.org 71 Boss 351 | 97 5.0 Explorer
mailtoemail redacted) 99 C5 Hdtp | 02 Mustang GT

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: richsilv (Rich Silva)


Actually (and we're all potentially showing our ignorance of alignment
terms...) isnt this a symptom of camber. Or to make sure I'm describing
what I mean... Sometimes, especially when people are working towards a
better handling car they end up with their wheels too "flat" to the
street... That is, the tires are too "straight up and down"... This works
great on a flat, nice surface like a track... but on grooved cement and
patched roads its a pain since the edges of your tires now have a chance to
"catch" on the imperfections... Most cars on the road today have a few
degrees of negative "camber", that is, the tires lean into the car a little...

What Chris is describing, Toe-in is a measure of whether the tires point
straight ahead or not... 0 degrees of Toe-in would mean both tires pointed
straight ahead... A lot of toe-in would make the tires look
"pigeon-toed"... I think most cars on the street have a degree or two of
toe-in... It makes turning a corner easier....

There is also "caster" and "ackermann" to confuse the issue...

I agree with Chris, I dont think you're describing bump-steer...

At 02:44 PM 4/28/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>My understanding of bumpsteer is that it is a change in steering
>geometry when the suspension is compressed - so when cornering
>hard, the steering basically goes out of alignment for a short
>amount of time. Bumpsteer should not effect you when changing
>lanes.
>
>What you describe sounds like toe-in - if toe-in is zero or
>positive, it can cause what you describe. Is there "play" in
>the steering? i.e. how much do you have to move the steering wheel
>before the front wheels actually start to turn? Could be the
>steering-box...
>
>Chris.
>
>
> > > RonMan wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey guys,
> > >
> > > I have a question....in the past few monthes I have changed my
> > front
> > > suspension, and have noticed what I think is bump steer, I have to
> > constantly
> > > correct for road bumps and have trouble changing lanes with out over
> > > compensating.
> > >
> > > What I have done to the front of my 1972 mustang convertible is
> > chnaged
> > > all the bushings, ball joints, the steering box is original and have a
> > new one
> > > to put in but wanted to wait until I put the new motor in, new lower
> > control
> > > arms, new shocks(koni), lowered springs(1", and stiffer(600#
> > springs)), new
> > > wheels (aluminum cobra rims with 245/60 - 16 tires), the sway bar is
> > stock
> > > until I get the new 1 inch bar. I want to install a front end brace
> > across the
> > > towers, but would like to solve one problem at a time and would like
> > your
> > > insite.
> > >
> > > IF you guys need any more info please let me know.
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Classic-mustangs mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
>
>=====
>***********************************************************
>Chris Tann Independent Consultant
>(email redacted) Walkabout Designs
>phone (408) 205 6793 christann.com
>***********************************************************
>_______________________________________________
>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>(email redacted)
>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: walt.boeninger (Walt Boeninger)



Rich Silva wrote:
>
> Actually (and we're all potentially showing our ignorance of alignment
> terms...) isnt this a symptom of camber. Or to make sure I'm describing
> what I mean... Sometimes, especially when people are working towards a
> better handling car they end up with their wheels too "flat" to the
> street... That is, the tires are too "straight up and down"... This works
> great on a flat, nice surface like a track... but on grooved cement and
> patched roads its a pain since the edges of your tires now have a chance to
> "catch" on the imperfections... Most cars on the road today have a few
> degrees of negative "camber", that is, the tires lean into the car a little...


Actually, I think it's the other way around. If you have "a few degrees"
of negative camber on the street, you will wear out the inside edge of the
tires quickly, assuming you aren't apexing every corner flat out.
Been there, done that a lot....

On the track you want negative camber, plus negative camber gain in bump
(compression), to allow the outside front tire to maintain as much
contact with the road surface as possible when turning.


------
Regards

Walt Boeninger - Nor Cal SAAC 67 GT500 | 67 Shelby T-A #31
norcal-saac.org 71 Boss 351 | 97 5.0 Explorer
mailtoemail redacted) 99 C5 Hdtp | 02 Mustang GT

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: richsilv (Rich Silva)


You see, I told you... I dont know what I'm talking about...

My car is set up with -1/2 degree camber... Per TMC... I couldnt find any
"stock specs" in the books I have at hand...

At 04:26 PM 4/28/2003 -0700, you wrote:


>Rich Silva wrote:
> >
> > Actually (and we're all potentially showing our ignorance of alignment
> > terms...) isnt this a symptom of camber. Or to make sure I'm describing
> > what I mean... Sometimes, especially when people are working towards a
> > better handling car they end up with their wheels too "flat" to the
> > street... That is, the tires are too "straight up and down"... This works
> > great on a flat, nice surface like a track... but on grooved cement and
> > patched roads its a pain since the edges of your tires now have a chance to
> > "catch" on the imperfections... Most cars on the road today have a few
> > degrees of negative "camber", that is, the tires lean into the car a
> little...
>
>
>Actually, I think it's the other way around. If you have "a few degrees"
>of negative camber on the street, you will wear out the inside edge of the
>tires quickly, assuming you aren't apexing every corner flat out.
>Been there, done that a lot....
>
>On the track you want negative camber, plus negative camber gain in bump
>(compression), to allow the outside front tire to maintain as much
>contact with the road surface as possible when turning.
>
>
> ------
>Regards
>
>Walt Boeninger - Nor Cal SAAC 67 GT500 | 67 Shelby T-A #31
>norcal-saac.org 71 Boss 351 | 97 5.0 Explorer
>mailtoemail redacted) 99 C5 Hdtp | 02 Mustang GT
>_______________________________________________
>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>(email redacted)
>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: ronsoy (Ronsoy)

Well if its the tires isn't there others on the list with large tires
(245-50 16) If so how is your ride is it like I describe or is it more like
stock just a little more responsive (what I was looking for), maybe if we
put a few different situations together we could get to the bottom of this
(to my happiness).

Thanks Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Silva" <(email redacted)>
To: "A list for owners of Classic Mustangs"
<(email redacted)>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Bump steer


>
> You see, I told you... I dont know what I'm talking about...
>
> My car is set up with -1/2 degree camber... Per TMC... I couldnt find any
> "stock specs" in the books I have at hand...
>
> At 04:26 PM 4/28/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
> >Rich Silva wrote:
> > >
> > > Actually (and we're all potentially showing our ignorance of alignment
> > > terms...) isnt this a symptom of camber. Or to make sure I'm
describing
> > > what I mean... Sometimes, especially when people are working towards a
> > > better handling car they end up with their wheels too "flat" to the
> > > street... That is, the tires are too "straight up and down"... This
works
> > > great on a flat, nice surface like a track... but on grooved cement
and
> > > patched roads its a pain since the edges of your tires now have a
chance to
> > > "catch" on the imperfections... Most cars on the road today have a few
> > > degrees of negative "camber", that is, the tires lean into the car a
> > little...
> >
> >
> >Actually, I think it's the other way around. If you have "a few degrees"
> >of negative camber on the street, you will wear out the inside edge of
the
> >tires quickly, assuming you aren't apexing every corner flat out.
> >Been there, done that a lot....
> >
> >On the track you want negative camber, plus negative camber gain in bump
> >(compression), to allow the outside front tire to maintain as much
> >contact with the road surface as possible when turning.
> >
> >
> > ------
> >Regards
> >
> >Walt Boeninger - Nor Cal SAAC 67 GT500 | 67 Shelby T-A #31
> >norcal-saac.org 71 Boss 351 | 97 5.0 Explorer
> >mailtoemail redacted) 99 C5 Hdtp | 02 Mustang GT
> >_______________________________________________
> >Classic-mustangs mailing list
> >(email redacted)
> >lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> (email redacted)
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>

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Mail From: richsilv (Rich Silva)


Mine is a '65 Sedan (Oct. 64 build date, all the problems of a 64 1/2 but
none of the prestige;-()
Lowered the upper A-arm 1-inch... 600 lb/in coils springs in front. 1-inch
front sway bar, 3/4 rear sway bar. 165 lb/in rear leafs. Poly bushings all
around. Traction Masters...

I also have a Flaming Gorge (flaming member, flaming something or other)
steering box...

P225/60-R14 tires...

No rubbing issues except that under hard cornering I just barely contact
the "cap" over the ball joints with the tires... Not enough to do anything
but wear off the paint (I've checked regularly, no tire damage at all, but
the cap over the ball joint is polished...

At 06:32 AM 4/29/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Well if its the tires isn't there others on the list with large tires
>(245-50 16) If so how is your ride is it like I describe or is it more like
>stock just a little more responsive (what I was looking for), maybe if we
>put a few different situations together we could get to the bottom of this
>(to my happiness).
>
>Thanks Ron
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rich Silva" <(email redacted)>
>To: "A list for owners of Classic Mustangs"
><(email redacted)>
>Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 7:44 PM
>Subject: Re: [CM] Bump steer
>
>
> >
> > You see, I told you... I dont know what I'm talking about...
> >
> > My car is set up with -1/2 degree camber... Per TMC... I couldnt find any
> > "stock specs" in the books I have at hand...
> >
> > At 04:26 PM 4/28/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > >Rich Silva wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Actually (and we're all potentially showing our ignorance of alignment
> > > > terms...) isnt this a symptom of camber. Or to make sure I'm
>describing
> > > > what I mean... Sometimes, especially when people are working towards a
> > > > better handling car they end up with their wheels too "flat" to the
> > > > street... That is, the tires are too "straight up and down"... This
>works
> > > > great on a flat, nice surface like a track... but on grooved cement
>and
> > > > patched roads its a pain since the edges of your tires now have a
>chance to
> > > > "catch" on the imperfections... Most cars on the road today have a few
> > > > degrees of negative "camber", that is, the tires lean into the car a
> > > little...
> > >
> > >
> > >Actually, I think it's the other way around. If you have "a few degrees"
> > >of negative camber on the street, you will wear out the inside edge of
>the
> > >tires quickly, assuming you aren't apexing every corner flat out.
> > >Been there, done that a lot....
> > >
> > >On the track you want negative camber, plus negative camber gain in bump
> > >(compression), to allow the outside front tire to maintain as much
> > >contact with the road surface as possible when turning.
> > >
> > >
> > > ------
> > >Regards
> > >
> > >Walt Boeninger - Nor Cal SAAC 67 GT500 | 67 Shelby T-A #31
> > >norcal-saac.org 71 Boss 351 | 97 5.0 Explorer
> > >mailtoemail redacted) 99 C5 Hdtp | 02 Mustang GT
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Classic-mustangs mailing list
> > >(email redacted)
> > >lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Classic-mustangs mailing list
> > (email redacted)
> > lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>(email redacted)
>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

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Mail From: jsanti2 (jsanti2)

Hi Folks,

I'm more than willing to defer to the more experienced members of the list,
but I have one pitch to make: lowering the car is said to have an effect on
bump steer -they even make "correcter kits" for this malady. I don't know if
1" is enough to start the problem, but it's something to keep in mind.

On the other hand, I agree that the changing lanes problem doesn't sound like
bump steer. Walt described a situation I went through while driving my 68 home
from Detroit -some seriously scary road wandering at 60 mph. Turned out that
the problem was horrifically degraded leaf spring bushings. After a new set
(and a rear sway-bar) she was solid (way past 60...*smiles*). But if you
weren't experiencing this problem before the front end work, it's not likely
your problem.

I haven't experienced any problems with wide sticky tires on my 72 -she's
wearing 275 Drag Radials in the back (very sticky, pretty wide) and I have no
issues (in fact, given the horsepower, it almost seems safer).

Good luck,

-john

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: walt.boeninger (Walt Boeninger)

My experience with tire caused instability was, IIRC, because
I had put new L50x15s on the rear of my 72 while I had older
smaller tires on the front. The only thing that sticks in my head
is that the new, bigger rear tires seemed to want to drive the
car...... realize this was 25 years ago......things change...
so does, my memory.

And who remembers this old rule of thumb?
"If installing only 2 new tires, put them on the front...."

Walt

Ronsoy wrote:
>
> Well if its the tires isn't there others on the list with large tires
> (245-50 16) If so how is your ride is it like I describe or is it more like
> stock just a little more responsive (what I was looking for), maybe if we
> put a few different situations together we could get to the bottom of this
> (to my happiness).
>
> Thanks Ron

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: peterchase2 (PETER CHASE)

Bump steer occurs when the tie rod is not parallel to the
lower a-arm. Then, when the suspension goes through its
travel (bump), the differences in the geometry cause the
spindle to turn slightly (steer). If you hit a bump with
both front wheels, this causes a change in the toe
settings of both wheels. However, when you hit a bump
with only one wheel, that wheel all of a sudden is at a
different toe setting and causes the car to pull to one
side briefly. I'm not sure if older Mustangs have bump
steer or not, but usually lowering a car will make a
bumpsteer problem worse. I know you can buy special
bushings to lower the steering rack of late model mustangs
to help bumpsteer but I'm not aware of anything for
bumpsteer on old mustangs.
Pete


On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:05:59 -0700
Rich Silva <(email redacted)> wrote:
>
>Actually (and we're all potentially showing our ignorance
>of alignment terms...) isnt this a symptom of camber. Or
>to make sure I'm describing what I mean... Sometimes,
>especially when people are working towards a better
>handling car they end up with their wheels too "flat" to
>the street... That is, the tires are too "straight up and
>down"... This works great on a flat, nice surface like a
>track... but on grooved cement and patched roads its a
>pain since the edges of your tires now have a chance to
>"catch" on the imperfections... Most cars on the road
>today have a few degrees of negative "camber", that is,
>the tires lean into the car a little...
>
>What Chris is describing, Toe-in is a measure of whether
>the tires point straight ahead or not... 0 degrees of
>Toe-in would mean both tires pointed straight ahead... A
>lot of toe-in would make the tires look "pigeon-toed"...
>I think most cars on the street have a degree or two of
>toe-in... It makes turning a corner easier....
>
>There is also "caster" and "ackermann" to confuse the
>issue...
>
>I agree with Chris, I dont think you're describing
>bump-steer...
>
>At 02:44 PM 4/28/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>My understanding of bumpsteer is that it is a change in
>>steering
>>geometry when the suspension is compressed - so when
>>cornering
>>hard, the steering basically goes out of alignment for a
>>short
>>amount of time. Bumpsteer should not effect you when
>>changing
>>lanes.
>>
>>What you describe sounds like toe-in - if toe-in is zero
>>or
>>positive, it can cause what you describe. Is there "play"
>>in
>>the steering? i.e. how much do you have to move the
>>steering wheel
>>before the front wheels actually start to turn? Could be
>>the
>>steering-box...
>>
>>Chris.
>>
>>
>>> > RonMan wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hey guys,
>>> >
>>> > I have a question....in the past few monthes I
>>>have changed my
>>> front
>>> > suspension, and have noticed what I think is bump
>>>steer, I have to
>>> constantly
>>> > correct for road bumps and have trouble changing lanes
>>>with out over
>>> > compensating.
>>> >
>>> > What I have done to the front of my 1972 mustang
>>>convertible is
>>> chnaged
>>> > all the bushings, ball joints, the steering box is
>>>original and have a
>>> new one
>>> > to put in but wanted to wait until I put the new motor
>>>in, new lower
>>> control
>>> > arms, new shocks(koni), lowered springs(1", and
>>>stiffer(600#
>>> springs)), new
>>> > wheels (aluminum cobra rims with 245/60 - 16 tires),
>>>the sway bar is
>>> stock
>>> > until I get the new 1 inch bar. I want to install a
>>>front end brace
>>> across the
>>> > towers, but would like to solve one problem at a time
>>>and would like
>>> your
>>> > insite.
>>> >
>>> > IF you guys need any more info please let me know.
>>> >
>>> > Ron
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Classic-mustangs mailing list
>>> (email redacted)
>>> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>>
>>
>>=====
>>***********************************************************
>>Chris Tann Independent
>>Consultant
>>(email redacted) Walkabout
>>Designs
>>phone (408) 205 6793
>> christann.com
>>***********************************************************
>>_______________________________________________
>>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>>(email redacted)
>>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>(email redacted)
>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: wal (Wal Marshall)

FWIW bump steer correctors for classic mustangs are available from Total
Control products.

Coming back to the original problem, with instability changing lanes, I can
certainly support the comments about sloppy rear suspension bushes (or loose
bolts /sagging leaves) causing over reaction when swerving across lanes.

However I recall that the original post said "cobra" wheels were fitted.
Could it be that these have different (unsuitable) back spacing?

Cheers

Wal

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: chris_tann (Chris Tann)

Hi,

Just had a thought - check the lug nuts!!! I had a problem with the
lug nuts on my repro 10-spokes coming loose when they were new, and
had a _horrible_ experience on the freeway!

Chris.

--- Wal Marshall <(email redacted)> wrote:
> FWIW bump steer correctors for classic mustangs are available from Total
> Control products.
>
> Coming back to the original problem, with instability changing lanes, I
> can
> certainly support the comments about sloppy rear suspension bushes (or
> loose
> bolts /sagging leaves) causing over reaction when swerving across lanes.
>
> However I recall that the original post said "cobra" wheels were fitted.
> Could it be that these have different (unsuitable) back spacing?
>
> Cheers
>
> Wal
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> (email redacted)
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs


=====
***********************************************************
Chris Tann Independent Consultant
(email redacted) Walkabout Designs
phone (408) 205 6793 christann.com
***********************************************************

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: pjb (Pete Boggini)

Wal Marshall said:
>
>FWIW bump steer correctors for classic mustangs are available from Total
>Control products.
>
>Coming back to the original problem, with instability changing lanes, I can
>certainly support the comments about sloppy rear suspension bushes (or loose
>bolts /sagging leaves) causing over reaction when swerving across lanes.
>
>However I recall that the original post said "cobra" wheels were fitted.
>Could it be that these have different (unsuitable) back spacing?

Just a datapoint. When I had Custom Alignment set my '65 to
have almost 3 degrees, that "twitchiness" while changing lanes with
ruts just about went away. When I had very little caster, it tended
to wander a lot.

peterb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Boggini
Systems Administrator/Enterprise Network Services
E-mail: (email redacted)
Phone: (650)933-6858
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: d_harrelson (Dennis Harrelson)

/lurkHello, list. I know I shouldn't jump in like this, but I've been wondering for some time if anyone has the Flaming River steering box, and what you thought of it as opposed to a new or rebuilt stock box. Much discussion has taken place about the various r&p set-ups (hats off to Sixto), but no-one has said anything about this improvement to the stock design. It seems kinda pricey for a steering box, but involves way less change from stock, which appeals to me, if it improves the stock vagueness noticeably.Thanks,Dennis Rich Silva said: Mine is a '65 Sedan (Oct. 64 build date, all the problems of a 64 1/2
but
none of the prestige;-()
Lowered the upper A-arm 1-inch... 600 lb/in coils springs in front.
1-inch
front sway bar, 3/4 rear sway bar. 165 lb/in rear leafs. Poly bushings
all
around. Traction Masters...

I also have a Flaming Gorge (flaming member, flaming something or
other)
steering box...


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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Mail From: walt.boeninger (Walt Boeninger)



Pete Boggini wrote:
>
> Just a datapoint. When I had Custom Alignment set my '65 to
> have almost 3 degrees, that "twitchiness" while changing lanes with
> ruts just about went away. When I had very little caster, it tended
> to wander a lot.

I'll bet..... they set mine to 4.5 degrees. Boy, did it want to
straight.... with manual steering, that sucker took
muscles to steer. But was great at 145 MPH...

I backed it down to 3.5

Walt
----

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Mail From: richsilv (Rich Silva)

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Mail From: ckelly (Chris Kelly)

Yes - caster, caster, caster. Have your alignment guy dial in at least 2
degrees and then test drive.
At 03:25 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Wal Marshall said:
>>
>>FWIW bump steer correctors for classic mustangs are available from Total
>>Control products.
>>
>>Coming back to the original problem, with instability changing lanes, I can
>>certainly support the comments about sloppy rear suspension bushes (or loose
>>bolts /sagging leaves) causing over reaction when swerving across lanes.
>>
>>However I recall that the original post said "cobra" wheels were fitted.
>>Could it be that these have different (unsuitable) back spacing?
>
> Just a datapoint. When I had Custom Alignment set my '65 to
>have almost 3 degrees, that "twitchiness" while changing lanes with
>ruts just about went away. When I had very little caster, it tended
>to wander a lot.
>
>peterb
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Peter Boggini
>Systems Administrator/Enterprise Network Services
>E-mail: (email redacted)
>Phone: (650)933-6858
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>_______________________________________________
>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>(email redacted)
>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
========The Kelly's==============
Chris - (email redacted)
Debbie - (email redacted)
users.abilene.com/~dkelly
Merkel, Texas
=================================

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: smoore (Spencer Moore)

What caster/camber/toe-in should I look for when setting up the front of
my 66 coupe?
so far I seen 2 - 3.5 degrees of caster recommended
camber?
toe?
I have a basically stock 66 with 14x6 wheels - I am planning on lowering
the upper control arm 1"
No road-course racing planned - just street driving.

Thx
Spencer
66 coupe
89 TTA

Chris Kelly wrote:

>Yes - caster, caster, caster. Have your alignment guy dial in at least 2
>degrees and then test drive.
>At 03:25 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>>Wal Marshall said:
>>
>>
>>>FWIW bump steer correctors for classic mustangs are available from Total
>>>Control products.
>>>
>>>Coming back to the original problem, with instability changing lanes, I can
>>>certainly support the comments about sloppy rear suspension bushes (or loose
>>>bolts /sagging leaves) causing over reaction when swerving across lanes.
>>>
>>>However I recall that the original post said "cobra" wheels were fitted.
>>>Could it be that these have different (unsuitable) back spacing?
>>>
>>>
>> Just a datapoint. When I had Custom Alignment set my '65 to
>>have almost 3 degrees, that "twitchiness" while changing lanes with
>>ruts just about went away. When I had very little caster, it tended
>>to wander a lot.
>>
>>peterb
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Peter Boggini
>>Systems Administrator/Enterprise Network Services
>>E-mail: (email redacted)
>>Phone: (650)933-6858
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>_______________________________________________
>>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>>(email redacted)
>>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>>
>>
>>
>========The Kelly's==============
>Chris - (email redacted)
>Debbie - (email redacted)
>users.abilene.com/~dkelly
> Merkel, Texas
>=================================
>_______________________________________________
>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>(email redacted)
>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
>

-

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Mail From: peterchase2 (PETER CHASE)

If I remember correctly, with the negative wedge camber
mod, you want to get close to 0 degrees of camber at the
normal ride height. Also, as a tip when getting your car
aligned, ask if you can either sit in the car when they're
doing it, or if they can add weight to the drivers seat
and floor. That way, the alignment will be perfect when
you are actually in it, not just when the car is empty.
Pete

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:51:01 -0500
Spencer Moore <(email redacted)> wrote:
>What caster/camber/toe-in should I look for when setting
>up the front of my 66 coupe?
>so far I seen 2 - 3.5 degrees of caster recommended
>camber?
>toe?
>I have a basically stock 66 with 14x6 wheels - I am
>planning on lowering the upper control arm 1"
>No road-course racing planned - just street driving.
>
>Thx
>Spencer
>66 coupe
>89 TTA
>
>Chris Kelly wrote:
>
>>Yes - caster, caster, caster. Have your alignment guy
>>dial in at least 2
>>degrees and then test drive. At 03:25 PM 4/29/2003
>>-0700, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Wal Marshall said:
>>>
>>>
>>>>FWIW bump steer correctors for classic mustangs are
>>>>available from Total
>>>>Control products.
>>>>
>>>>Coming back to the original problem, with instability
>>>>changing lanes, I can
>>>>certainly support the comments about sloppy rear
>>>>suspension bushes (or loose
>>>>bolts /sagging leaves) causing over reaction when
>>>>swerving across lanes.
>>>>
>>>>However I recall that the original post said "cobra"
>>>>wheels were fitted.
>>>>Could it be that these have different (unsuitable) back
>>>>spacing?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Just a datapoint. When I had Custom Alignment set my '65
>>>to
>>>have almost 3 degrees, that "twitchiness" while changing
>>>lanes with
>>>ruts just about went away. When I had very little
>>>caster, it tended
>>>to wander a lot.
>>>
>>>peterb
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>Peter Boggini
>>>Systems Administrator/Enterprise Network Services
>>>E-mail: (email redacted)
>>>Phone: (650)933-6858
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>>>(email redacted)
>>>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>========The Kelly's==============
>>Chris - (email redacted)
>>Debbie - (email redacted)
>>users.abilene.com/~dkelly
>> Merkel, Texas
>>=================================
>>_______________________________________________
>>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>>(email redacted)
>>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>>
>>
>
>-
>

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Mail From: richsilv (Rich Silva)

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Mail From: richsilv (Rich Silva)

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Mail From: richsilv (Rich Silva)


Add to that 1/2 tank of gas... and whatever else you usually carry in the
car...

At 10:01 AM 4/30/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>If I remember correctly, with the negative wedge camber mod, you want to
>get close to 0 degrees of camber at the normal ride height. Also, as a
>tip when getting your car aligned, ask if you can either sit in the car
>when they're doing it, or if they can add weight to the drivers seat and
>floor. That way, the alignment will be perfect when you are actually in
>it, not just when the car is empty. Pete
>
>On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:51:01 -0500
> Spencer Moore <(email redacted)> wrote:
>>What caster/camber/toe-in should I look for when setting up the front of
>>my 66 coupe?
>>so far I seen 2 - 3.5 degrees of caster recommended
>>camber?
>>toe?
>>I have a basically stock 66 with 14x6 wheels - I am planning on lowering
>>the upper control arm 1"
>>No road-course racing planned - just street driving.
>>
>>Thx
>>Spencer
>>66 coupe
>>89 TTA
>>
>>Chris Kelly wrote:
>>
>>>Yes - caster, caster, caster. Have your alignment guy dial in at least 2
>>>degrees and then test drive. At 03:25 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>>>
>>>>Wal Marshall said:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>FWIW bump steer correctors for classic mustangs are available from Total
>>>>>Control products.
>>>>>
>>>>>Coming back to the original problem, with instability changing lanes,
>>>>>I can
>>>>>certainly support the comments about sloppy rear suspension bushes (or
>>>>>loose
>>>>>bolts /sagging leaves) causing over reaction when swerving across lanes.
>>>>>
>>>>>However I recall that the original post said "cobra" wheels were fitted.
>>>>>Could it be that these have different (unsuitable) back spacing?
>>>>>
>>>>Just a datapoint. When I had Custom Alignment set my '65 to have
>>>>almost 3 degrees, that "twitchiness" while changing lanes with
>>>>ruts just about went away. When I had very little caster, it tended
>>>>to wander a lot.
>>>>
>>>>peterb
>>>>
>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>Peter Boggini
>>>>Systems Administrator/Enterprise Network Services
>>>>E-mail: (email redacted)
>>>>Phone: (650)933-6858
>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>>>>(email redacted)
>>>>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>========The Kelly's==============
>>>Chris - (email redacted)
>>>Debbie - (email redacted)
>>>users.abilene.com/~dkelly
>>> Merkel, Texas
>>>=================================
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>>>(email redacted)
>>>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>>
>>-
>
>_______________________________________________
>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>(email redacted)
>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Ronsoy (RonMan)

Negative? or Positive......with the 2 degrees? I will also check to see if I
can find the print out from the alignment.


Thanks Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Kelly" <(email redacted)>
To: "A list for owners of Classic Mustangs"
<(email redacted)>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [CM] Bump steer


> Yes - caster, caster, caster. Have your alignment guy dial in at least 2
> degrees and then test drive.
> At 03:25 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >Wal Marshall said:
> >>
> >>FWIW bump steer correctors for classic mustangs are available from Total
> >>Control products.
> >>
> >>Coming back to the original problem, with instability changing lanes, I
can
> >>certainly support the comments about sloppy rear suspension bushes (or
loose
> >>bolts /sagging leaves) causing over reaction when swerving across lanes.
> >>
> >>However I recall that the original post said "cobra" wheels were fitted.
> >>Could it be that these have different (unsuitable) back spacing?
> >
> > Just a datapoint. When I had Custom Alignment set my '65 to
> >have almost 3 degrees, that "twitchiness" while changing lanes with
> >ruts just about went away. When I had very little caster, it tended
> >to wander a lot.
> >
> >peterb
> >
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Peter Boggini
> >Systems Administrator/Enterprise Network Services
> >E-mail: (email redacted)
> >Phone: (650)933-6858
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >_______________________________________________
> >Classic-mustangs mailing list
> >(email redacted)
> >lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
> >
> ========The Kelly's==============
> Chris - (email redacted)
> Debbie - (email redacted)
> users.abilene.com/~dkelly
> Merkel, Texas
> =================================
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> (email redacted)
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: ckelly (Chris Kelly)

Positive if I remember correctly. The old guy that did the Falcon dialed
in 2 1/2 because that's all he could get. The camber and toe are stock.
At 11:21 AM 4/30/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Negative? or Positive......with the 2 degrees? I will also check to see if I
>can find the print out from the alignment.
>
>
>Thanks Ron
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chris Kelly" <(email redacted)>
>To: "A list for owners of Classic Mustangs"
><(email redacted)>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:19 AM
>Subject: Re: [CM] Bump steer
>
>
>> Yes - caster, caster, caster. Have your alignment guy dial in at least 2
>> degrees and then test drive.
>> At 03:25 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>> >Wal Marshall said:
>> >>
>> >>FWIW bump steer correctors for classic mustangs are available from Total
>> >>Control products.
>> >>
>> >>Coming back to the original problem, with instability changing lanes, I
>can
>> >>certainly support the comments about sloppy rear suspension bushes (or
>loose
>> >>bolts /sagging leaves) causing over reaction when swerving across lanes.
>> >>
>> >>However I recall that the original post said "cobra" wheels were fitted.
>> >>Could it be that these have different (unsuitable) back spacing?
>> >
>> > Just a datapoint. When I had Custom Alignment set my '65 to
>> >have almost 3 degrees, that "twitchiness" while changing lanes with
>> >ruts just about went away. When I had very little caster, it tended
>> >to wander a lot.
>> >
>> >peterb
>> >
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >Peter Boggini
>> >Systems Administrator/Enterprise Network Services
>> >E-mail: (email redacted)
>> >Phone: (650)933-6858
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Classic-mustangs mailing list
>> >(email redacted)
>> >lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>> >
>> ========The Kelly's==============
>> Chris - (email redacted)
>> Debbie - (email redacted)
>> users.abilene.com/~dkelly
>> Merkel, Texas
>> =================================
>> _______________________________________________
>> Classic-mustangs mailing list
>> (email redacted)
>> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
>_______________________________________________
>Classic-mustangs mailing list
>(email redacted)
>lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
========The Kelly's==============
Chris - (email redacted)
Debbie - (email redacted)
users.abilene.com/~dkelly
Merkel, Texas
=================================