SHOtimes List Archive

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mark Helpinstill" <(email redacted)>

I am extremely frustrated today - driven to shop for new cars.

Having trouble with my 94 MTX. I failed emissions for high NOX (by only 10%),
so I replaced my original o2 sensors (175K mi) with the Bosch 13942.
Restarted and after going 10 miles got a check engine light. Pulled codes and
got the 172 and 176 O2 sensor codes. Pulled new o2 sensors and bench tested
using the shotimes procedure - both failed to show decent voltage change. I
returned them to autozone and got replacements today. Just installed them and
no longer getting the CEL, but with the code scanner still getting the same
codes, plus engine running getting code 16 (does not exist apparently). Code
scanner is a high quality autoxray unit.

Checked for vacuum leaks and cleaned MAF. Still getting the same codes. Any
suggestions before dropping the car at a shop? I reinstalled the original
ford O2 sensors and get no codes. It will likely cost $200+ just to get
someone to look at it, and likely tell me nothing.

Bottom line - I replace a good part with known good parts and now I have
codes. It seems likely that I have had a lean condition and the new O2
sensors are more accurately reflecting that with a code.

If no one has any ideas - what about suggestions for a cost effective shop in
central NJ?

Thanks
Mark
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Mail From: "George Fourchy" <(email redacted)>

On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:04:57 -0400, Mark Helpinstill wrote:

>Having trouble with my 94 MTX. I failed emissions for high NOX (by only 10%),
>so I replaced my original o2 sensors (175K mi) with the Bosch 13942.
>Restarted and after going 10 miles got a check engine light. ....snipped
.......... still getting the same
>codes, plus engine running getting code 16 (does not exist apparently). Code
>scanner is a high quality autoxray unit.

I think you have the wrong sensors. Bosch 13942 is what a '90 and '91 Gen 1 car
uses. I originally got a different part number for a friend's '91, which was
indicated to be correct by my NAPA dealer. The same conditions occurred for me as
are occuring for you. I got this number, which was theoretically for a '92 per
NAPA, I think, and they work correctly. The differences are dictated by the various
PCMs (computers).

Someone on the list here knows what sensors to get. The books are wrong at many
auto parts stores.

I don't know about Gen 2 specifics, or I'd be glad to tell you which ones to get.

George
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Mail From: Peter Maggiacomo <(email redacted)>

This may or may not be any help, but I got my Bosche
ox sensors from Advanced Auto Parts, and they are the
correct ones for my 95MTX and have performed well now
for 5 years. If I remember correctly, I went online to
Advanced Auto site and got the part # from the site.
Then went into the store with their part #.
Had no problem, but as you already know, make sure the
lead wires are long enough. Good Luck.
-Pete
Tampa Fl.
95 MTX 95,000 Original miles
Needs Original Clutch replaced
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Mark Helpinstill" <(email redacted)>

Kris and George,

Thanks for the suggestions.

Definitely cleared the codes each time.

Checked Bosch part #s online and at the store - seems to be correct.

Not willing to spend $500 on new cats.

Looked for vacuum leaks again today and found nothing.

Looks like I will be pulling the spout connector and hoping for the best.

Thanks
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "K. Angermeier" <(email redacted)>
To: "Mark Helpinstill" <(email redacted)>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Help with lean condition


> Hey Mark,
>
> I may be off on my suggestions, but they are just that, suggestions.
>
> Did you make sure to clear the codes after each time?
>
> Do you know if your catalytic converters are okay?
>
> My first suggestion was merely because it was something I didn't realize.
>
> My second suggestion is because that is exactly what we had to do with my
> '93 ATX to get it to pass emissions. We brought it to a local exhaust
> shop who cut the bad ones out and welded new ones on.
>
> Don't know if it helps or not, just my experience.
>
> Good Luck
>
> Kris Angermeier
> Sheboygan, WI
>
> '91 Plus Wht/Blk
> '91 Plus Wht/Blk (crushed)
> '93 Ultra Red ATX
>
> "Women Who Behave Never Make History"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Helpinstill" <(email redacted)>
> To: <(email redacted)>
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 6:04 PM
> Subject: [Shotimes] Help with lean condition
>
>
>>I am extremely frustrated today - driven to shop for new cars.
>>
>> Having trouble with my 94 MTX. I failed emissions for high NOX (by only
>> 10%),
>> so I replaced my original o2 sensors (175K mi) with the Bosch 13942.
>> Restarted and after going 10 miles got a check engine light. Pulled
>> codes and
>> got the 172 and 176 O2 sensor codes. Pulled new o2 sensors and bench
>> tested
>> using the shotimes procedure - both failed to show decent voltage change.
>> I
>> returned them to autozone and got replacements today. Just installed
>> them and
>> no longer getting the CEL, but with the code scanner still getting the
>> same
>> codes, plus engine running getting code 16 (does not exist apparently).
>> Code
>> scanner is a high quality autoxray unit.
>>
>> Checked for vacuum leaks and cleaned MAF. Still getting the same codes.
>> Any
>> suggestions before dropping the car at a shop? I reinstalled the
>> original
>> ford O2 sensors and get no codes. It will likely cost $200+ just to get
>> someone to look at it, and likely tell me nothing.
>>
>> Bottom line - I replace a good part with known good parts and now I have
>> codes. It seems likely that I have had a lean condition and the new O2
>> sensors are more accurately reflecting that with a code.
>>
>> If no one has any ideas - what about suggestions for a cost effective
>> shop in
>> central NJ?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mark
>> _______________________________________________
>> Shotimes mailing list
>> (email redacted)
>> team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
_______________________________________________
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: James White <(email redacted)>

I passed my '93mtx a few years ago by adding a bunch of ethanol.
Had to add 3 gallons of pure ethanol from Menards, but it passed.
Now they have E85 for less money. I added about 5 gallons to a
half of a tank of regular gas. 2 years later, it wouldn't pass with
the above magic, so I had to buy a new y-pipe.

Wonder if methanol might work better?

regards, Jim White - (email redacted)


At Sunday, 10 September 2006, "Mark Helpinstill" <mhelpinstill@patmedia.
net> wrote:

>Kris and George,
>
>Thanks for the suggestions.
>
>Definitely cleared the codes each time.
>
>Checked Bosch part #s online and at the store - seems to be correct.
>
>Not willing to spend $500 on new cats.
>
>Looked for vacuum leaks again today and found nothing.
>
>Looks like I will be pulling the spout connector and hoping for
the best.
>
>Thanks
>Mark
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "K. Angermeier" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Mark Helpinstill" <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:58 PM
>Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Help with lean condition
>
>> Hey Mark,
>>
>> I may be off on my suggestions, but they are just that, suggestions.
>>
>> Did you make sure to clear the codes after each time?
>>
>> Do you know if your catalytic converters are okay?
>>
>> My first suggestion was merely because it was something I didn't
realize.
>>
>> My second suggestion is because that is exactly what we had to
do with my
>> '93 ATX to get it to pass emissions. We brought it to a local
exhaust
>> shop who cut the bad ones out and welded new ones on.
>>
>> Don't know if it helps or not, just my experience.
>>
>> Good Luck
>>
>> Kris Angermeier
>> Sheboygan, WI
>>
>> '91 Plus Wht/Blk
>> '91 Plus Wht/Blk (crushed)
>> '93 Ultra Red ATX
>>
>> "Women Who Behave Never Make History"
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mark Helpinstill" <(email redacted)>
>> To: <(email redacted)>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 6:04 PM
>> Subject: [Shotimes] Help with lean condition
>>
>>
>>>I am extremely frustrated today - driven to shop for new cars.
>>>
>>> Having trouble with my 94 MTX. I failed emissions for high NOX
(by only
>>> 10%),
>>> so I replaced my original o2 sensors (175K mi) with the Bosch 13942.
>>> Restarted and after going 10 miles got a check engine light.
Pulled
>>> codes and
>>> got the 172 and 176 O2 sensor codes. Pulled new o2 sensors and
bench
>>> tested
>>> using the shotimes procedure - both failed to show decent voltage
change.
>>> I
>>> returned them to autozone and got replacements today. Just installed

>>> them and
>>> no longer getting the CEL, but with the code scanner still getting
the
>>> same
>>> codes, plus engine running getting code 16 (does not exist apparently).

>>> Code
>>> scanner is a high quality autoxray unit.
>>>
>>> Checked for vacuum leaks and cleaned MAF. Still getting the
same codes.
>>> Any
>>> suggestions before dropping the car at a shop? I reinstalled the
>>> original
>>> ford O2 sensors and get no codes. It will likely cost $200+
just to get
>>> someone to look at it, and likely tell me nothing.
>>>
>>> Bottom line - I replace a good part with known good parts and
now I have
>>> codes. It seems likely that I have had a lean condition and
the new O2
>>> sensors are more accurately reflecting that with a code.
>>>
>>> If no one has any ideas - what about suggestions for a cost effective

>>> shop in
>>> central NJ?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mark
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>> (email redacted)
>>> team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>_______________________________________________
>Shotimes mailing list
>(email redacted)
>team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
_______________________________________________
Shotimes mailing list
(email redacted)
team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: FlamingTaco <(email redacted)>

1) Clean your MAF! Dirty MAF causes extra NOX.
2) Go when it's rainy. Heat causes nox. Humidity reduces combustion event temperatures.
3) Ensure engine is running as cool as possible. Is thermostat old? Put in a 180 degree stat temporarily...
4) Have EGR? Ensure it's working well.
5) DeCarbon, DeCarbon, DeCarbon! Fuel injector cleaner, too.
6) Cylinder balance test.
7) Have the correct plugs? Are they seated properly?

David


-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Helpinstill <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Sep 10, 2006 11:40 PM
>To: (email redacted)
>Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Help with lean condition
>
>Kris and George,
>
>Thanks for the suggestions.
>
>Definitely cleared the codes each time.
>
>Checked Bosch part #s online and at the store - seems to be correct.
>
>Not willing to spend $500 on new cats.
>
>Looked for vacuum leaks again today and found nothing.
>
>Looks like I will be pulling the spout connector and hoping for the best.
>
>Thanks
>Mark
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "K. Angermeier" <(email redacted)>
>To: "Mark Helpinstill" <(email redacted)>
>Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:58 PM
>Subject: Re: [Shotimes] Help with lean condition
>
>
>> Hey Mark,
>>
>> I may be off on my suggestions, but they are just that, suggestions.
>>
>> Did you make sure to clear the codes after each time?
>>
>> Do you know if your catalytic converters are okay?
>>
>> My first suggestion was merely because it was something I didn't realize.
>>
>> My second suggestion is because that is exactly what we had to do with my
>> '93 ATX to get it to pass emissions. We brought it to a local exhaust
>> shop who cut the bad ones out and welded new ones on.
>>
>> Don't know if it helps or not, just my experience.
>>
>> Good Luck
>>
>> Kris Angermeier
>> Sheboygan, WI
>>
>> '91 Plus Wht/Blk
>> '91 Plus Wht/Blk (crushed)
>> '93 Ultra Red ATX
>>
>> "Women Who Behave Never Make History"
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mark Helpinstill" <(email redacted)>
>> To: <(email redacted)>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 6:04 PM
>> Subject: [Shotimes] Help with lean condition
>>
>>
>>>I am extremely frustrated today - driven to shop for new cars.
>>>
>>> Having trouble with my 94 MTX. I failed emissions for high NOX (by only
>>> 10%),
>>> so I replaced my original o2 sensors (175K mi) with the Bosch 13942.
>>> Restarted and after going 10 miles got a check engine light. Pulled
>>> codes and
>>> got the 172 and 176 O2 sensor codes. Pulled new o2 sensors and bench
>>> tested
>>> using the shotimes procedure - both failed to show decent voltage change.
>>> I
>>> returned them to autozone and got replacements today. Just installed
>>> them and
>>> no longer getting the CEL, but with the code scanner still getting the
>>> same
>>> codes, plus engine running getting code 16 (does not exist apparently).
>>> Code
>>> scanner is a high quality autoxray unit.
>>>
>>> Checked for vacuum leaks and cleaned MAF. Still getting the same codes.
>>> Any
>>> suggestions before dropping the car at a shop? I reinstalled the
>>> original
>>> ford O2 sensors and get no codes. It will likely cost $200+ just to get
>>> someone to look at it, and likely tell me nothing.
>>>
>>> Bottom line - I replace a good part with known good parts and now I have
>>> codes. It seems likely that I have had a lean condition and the new O2
>>> sensors are more accurately reflecting that with a code.
>>>
>>> If no one has any ideas - what about suggestions for a cost effective
>>> shop in
>>> central NJ?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mark
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Shotimes mailing list
>>> (email redacted)
>>> team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
>_______________________________________________
>Shotimes mailing list
>(email redacted)
>team.net/mailman/listinfo/shotimes
_______________________________________________
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