Fordnatics List Archive

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Mail From: "Paul Ansley" <(email redacted)>

I have been having a problem with getting my Supercoupe into 1st or 2nd gear
after a complete stop. As long as you are rolling a little you can shift it.
I took it to a dealer and they added a friction modifier to the fluid. What
the heck does that do to a trannie? I can understand using it in a LSD, but a
trannie? Anyway, the problem is only getting worse, to the point that I was
stuck in a parking lot the other day until I finally jammed it into gear
(which is not healthy for the gears). The dealer says they see the problem
frequently, but Ford just tells them to add friction modifier to the lube. I
thought about trying some Redline fluid , but it is expensive can't see how
fluid can solve a problem this bad. Any ideas?????

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul Ansley
Intermetrics - Manned Spaceflight Division
Houston, Texas USA

==== '91 SuperCoupe (SC ya........)

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Mail From: (email redacted) (Robert King)

>
> I have been having a problem with getting my Supercoupe into 1st or 2nd gear
> after a complete stop. As long as you are rolling a little you can shift it.
> I took it to a dealer and they added a friction modifier to the fluid. What
> the heck does that do to a trannie? I can understand using it in a LSD, but a
> trannie? Anyway, the problem is only getting worse, to the point that I was
> stuck in a parking lot the other day until I finally jammed it into gear
> (which is not healthy for the gears). The dealer says they see the problem
> frequently, but Ford just tells them to add friction modifier to the lube. I
> thought about trying some Redline fluid , but it is expensive can't see how
> fluid can solve a problem this bad. Any ideas?????

Sounds like your clutch isn't completely disengaging. As a standstill,
put it in forst. At a standstill, put the car in first. Does the car
move? If so, then its your clutch.

- -- Robert King


+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Robert A. King | |
| Systems Software Engineer | |
| Kodak Health Imaging Systems | "I drank WHAT?!?" -- Socrates |
| | |
| (email redacted) | |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The opinions expressed here arn't even mine, much less my employer's! |
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)

On Aug 16, Paul Ansley wrote:

> I have been having a problem with getting my Supercoupe into 1st or
> 2nd gear after a complete stop... I thought about trying some Redline
> fluid , but it is expensive can't see how fluid can solve a problem
> this bad. Any ideas?????

Well, think about it. The synchronizers work by virtue of the
lubricant being imperfect. This allows the synchros to transmit enough
torque through the lubricant film to allow them to work at all,
sinning up or decelerating the frewheeling parts of the driveline. If
things get either too slick, or too sticky, the 'box will get balky.

A clean, fresh fill of whatever lubricant your personal lube religion
dictates will probably help more than a half dozen more bottles of
friction modifier. It doesn't take being too far off the "just slick
enough" point to make that gearbox be a gold-plated bitch to work
with.

If the Red Line MTL is too expensive for you, then by all means try
one of the more mainstream synthetics. I use, and swear by, Mobil 1
Synthetic Universal ATF for my T-5. Other folks have had other
experiences with MTL and the other goops. But by and large a good
quality synthetic will be very much at home in there, and will
probably do a pretty good job at curing your balky box. In any case,
it's an easy thing to try, and much less painful than allowing the car
to cross the threshold of a dealer's service bay again...

-skod

- --
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : (email redacted)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Robert King)

> If the Red Line MTL is too expensive for you, then by all means try
> one of the more mainstream synthetics. I use, and swear by, Mobil 1
> Synthetic Universal ATF for my T-5. Other folks have had other
> experiences with MTL and the other goops. But by and large a good
> quality synthetic will be very much at home in there, and will
> probably do a pretty good job at curing your balky box. In any case,
> it's an easy thing to try, and much less painful than allowing the car
> to cross the threshold of a dealer's service bay again...

I recently switched to Redline synthetic ATF in my T-5, and someone
asked why I didn't switch to Redline MTL. I was told that I shouldn't
use MTL in a T-5, but I wasn't told why. Any ideas?

- -- Robert King

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Paul,

Well, I have no ideas for your 'fix', but I do have a suggestion
to keep you from (1) getting stuck in another parking lot, and
(2) doing unhealthy things to the gears...

You should be able to shift as long as the gears inside the
tranny are spinning. When you push the clutch in with your foot,
they spin down (maybe the friction modifier makes this happen more
slowly). On my Japanese econobox, the Reverse gear has the same
problem as your 1st/2nd - sometimes its almost impossible to
shift into reverse! The solution is to put the car in neutral,
let the clutch out for a moment to get the gears spinning (match
speed with the engine), then push the clutch back in and immediately
try to shift normally into the stubborn gear. It should go in
smoothly.

This is basically double clutching (while stopped....).

Hope this helps!
Eric Riggert
(email redacted)
'66 Mustang GT (A/T)
'94 Muwstang Cobra
'89 Nissan Sentra <--- you guessed it - the culprit in MY stable...

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Paul Ansley" <(email redacted)>

In response to your letter received Tue, Aug 16, 1994 at 4:31 PM

> On my Japanese econobox, the Reverse gear >has the same
>problem as your 1st/2nd - sometimes its >almost impossible to
>shift into reverse!

Eric, thanks for the suggestion, I'll have to try that one along with some
others people have been sending me. Your problem sounds like one I learned
about on a Saginaw 4-spd I had along time ago. A lot of trannies require that
you sync 1st gear (put it in 1st) before shifting into reverse. I use to grind
the reverse gear (it was my first car) until someone told me this. I know my
Pathfinder (oops...not Ford) is the same way, so maybe this is your problem.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul Ansley
Intermetrics - Manned Spaceflight Division
Houston, Texas USA

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: "Paul Ansley" <(email redacted)>

In response to your letter received Tue, Aug 16, 1994 at 7:14 PM

>If you do nothing else, DO put RedLine MTL in >the tranny... I had the
>same problem (esp. when it was cold), that >smoothed it right out.

Several people suggested using MTL. I'll have to check my manual, but I
thought most manual trans. were using ATF like Dextron II these days.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul Ansley
Intermetrics - Manned Spaceflight Division
Houston, Texas USA

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)

On Aug 17, Paul Ansley wrote [re: T-5 lubes]:

> Several people suggested using MTL. I'll have to check my manual, but I
> thought most manual trans. were using ATF like Dextron II these days.

Out of curiousity, I called up the Borg-Warner Transmission
Engineering Group's tech hotline a few weeks ago, and asked them
whether there were any T-5 applications that were intended to be
serviced with anything other than Dexron-II ATF. The gent I talked to
told me that every T-5 shipped since the introduction was filled with
ATF from the factory, with the exception of those shipped to GM for
use in the 1987 model year F-bodies. These were shipped dry, and
filled by GM with 5W-30 motor oil, for reasons that the BW guy didn't
fully understand. In the 1988 model year, GM went back to buying T-5s
with ATF fills, probably because of "balky gearbox" complaints.

Anyway, according to BW, Dexron-II ATF is the stuff to use, regardless
of what a wrong-headed manufacturer might print in their manuals.

Now, the Red Line MTL is spec'd as "a 75W/80W API GL-3 or GL-4 gear
oil. It also satisfies the SAE motor oil viscosities of SAE 5W/10W/30,
and the viscosity requirements for ATFs". Those are some widely
varying lube specs, and it's not clear to me that the MTL is low
enough viscosity when cold to be really happy in a T-5.

In the final analysis, the folks who have used it and liked it _swear_
by it. The folks who have used it and _didn't_ like it changed it out
very quickly for the lighter ATFs, after complaining of notchy, stiff,
or balky shifting. There is no strong concensus that I'm aware of.

The Red Line poop sheet that I'm quoting from also lists Coefficient
of Friction values for MTL versus Dexron-II. Interestingly, the Cf is
a factor of 2 lower (slicker) for the MTL for low relative surface
speeds, like you'd get in a synchronizer that is getting ready to
"drop in". This might actually lead to balky shifting for folks who
have a gentle touch, while not causing a noticeable difference for the
more hurried driver who likes to overpower the synchros. Whatever.
Maybe that explains some of the stories, maybe not. Who knows?

Just goes to show that there's no accounting for taste, nor is there
any easy way to acommodate the age, breakin procedures, or tolerances
of your particular gearbox. But I will go so far as to say that you
cannot hurt your 'box by trying it, or any of the other Dexron-II
synthetic ATFs. The BW tech guy had no comment when I asked him about
Red Line MTL, which I think is their way of saying "We recommend what
we recommended in the FM".

What the heck- give it a shot. It's only oil, and by definition that's
a consumable. What's three quarts, and half an hour to change it?

-skod

- --
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : (email redacted)