Fordnatics List Archive

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Mail From: Bill Darchi <(email redacted)>


I have two questions, Thank you for any responses I get.


1) My rear brakes have over 81000 miles on them with the original
brake pad. The front disc brakes were just changed about 1500 miles ago.
I notice that the braking on the car does not seem 100 %, the brake
pedal does not appear spongy nor does the brake pedal travel
excessively, also the brakes do not squeal or grind. Anyway do you think
I should replace the rear drum pads or can I wait? I'm only concerned
because I have had no success removing the drums. I've tried the rubber
mallet trick, but they still don't come off. I've been considering a
drum puller, because I've been unable to manuever the adjusters to
release the drum (All thumbs I guess!).

2) I have a problem with the engine when an accesory is turned on
(defroster, A/C, etc.) The engine idle lowers at idle and the voltage gauge
takes a dip to about 8 or 9 volts. Also when the defroster is on while
the car is running at highway speed, and I step on the clutch(or place
the car in nuetral) the tach shows the RPM dip to below ~500 shoot back
up to ~1000 ( I assume normal) and then drop to zero ( in effect stalling).
I plan on hooking up an EEC-IV computer analyzer and check the codes, but
my friend said that it can be difficult to determine the problem by doing
this if you don't already have a idea of what the problem is. So if
anyone has had a similar experience (or an idea) please let me know.

Thanks,

Bill

BTW I've just purchased a new Explorer. I wonder if anyone knows if it
would be better to have all the maintance done by a dealership (5000,
10,000 etc schedules) as stated in the maintance schedule pamphlet to
perserve the waranty or would they accept someone doing it themselves?

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Craig=Blome%Graphics=Dev%PCPD=(email redacted)

Bill Darchi <(email redacted)> Wrote:
|
| 2) I have a problem with the engine when an accesory is turned on
| (defroster, A/C, etc.) ***The engine idle lowers at idle*** and the voltage
gauge

I hope this is not a recursive condition! :-)

| takes a dip to about 8 or 9 volts. Also when the defroster is on while
| the car is running at highway speed, and I step on the clutch(or place
| the car in nuetral) the tach shows the RPM dip to below ~500 shoot back
| up to ~1000 ( I assume normal) and then drop to zero ( in effect stalling).

There's a TSB out for clutch position sensors on the Taurus SHO covering
similar behavior. Not much fun to have this happen getting off the freeway!

| I plan on hooking up an EEC-IV computer analyzer and check the codes, but
| my friend said that it can be difficult to determine the problem by doing
| this if you don't already have a idea of what the problem is. So if
| anyone has had a similar experience (or an idea) please let me know.
|
If it's an '87 or newer, you can use a jumper wire and read the codes off the
Check Engine light. Chuck's FTP archive contains files describing the
procedure. You'll want to look at "How to Understand, Service and Modify Ford
Fuel Injection and Engine Control Systems" by Charles Probst for a complete
list of EEC IV codes. There's nothing difficult about it except that the
problem isn't necessarily with one of the sensors that the computer tests.
Unfortunately, I think the clutch position sensor may be one of these.

Regards,
Craig Blome

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)

On Oct 20, Bill Darchi wrote:

> 1) My rear brakes have over 81000 miles on them with the original
> brake pad. The front disc brakes were just changed about 1500 miles ago.
> I notice that the braking on the car does not seem 100 %, the brake
> pedal does not appear spongy nor does the brake pedal travel
> excessively, also the brakes do not squeal or grind.

By that kind of mileage, the shoes need help. You may not be onto the
rivets yet, but you're getting very close indeed! Replacement is very
much in order. The other thing that should clue you in there is the
wear lip that's preventing you from getting the drum off. The wear lip
is catching on the shoes. If you attack it with a drum puller, you'll
simply break the retaining clips on the shoes, and end up with a face
full of shoes, springs, and levers, and a very interesting reassembly
task. You really need to back the shoes off before proceeding.

It's not that difficult. You can see the lever that actuates the
starwheel adjuster mechanism though the opening with the rubber plug
in it. Get the car up in the air so you can get to the backing plates,
set up a light source that your head can't block (I used to hold a
small flashlight in my teeth), and look in there. There will be the
star wheel, and on top of it there will be a lever that engages the
wheel. With one small screwdriver, lift that lever until it clears the
wheel. With another, turn the starwheel _away from you_, which is to
say that you should be pushing _up_ on the teeth you can get to. Up
loosens, down tightens. You'll need to loosen it quite a lot with
that kind of mileage, maybe 15 full turns. At the point, the shoes
should clear the lip on the drum, and it should come off with only
moderate persuasion. When it's reassembled, adjust until there's a
slight drag, and then back off until the drag goes away.

The drums may actually be worn beyond their wear limit, with a groove
that is that bad. Measure to be sure, and replace if there's any
question. Otherwise, a simple turning to lose the lip may clean things
up. Also, if you have one of the late cars that has an auto-adjusting
parking brake lever, you may need to release the tension on the
adjuster in the lever mechanism to get enough slack back for the
parking brake to release fully.

> 2) I have a problem with the engine when an accesory is turned on
> (defroster, A/C, etc.) The engine idle lowers at idle and the voltage gauge
> takes a dip to about 8 or 9 volts. Also when the defroster is on while
> the car is running at highway speed, and I step on the clutch(or place
> the car in nuetral) the tach shows the RPM dip to below ~500 shoot back
> up to ~1000 ( I assume normal) and then drop to zero ( in effect stalling).
> I plan on hooking up an EEC-IV computer analyzer and check the codes, but
> my friend said that it can be difficult to determine the problem by doing
> this if you don't already have a idea of what the problem is. So if
> anyone has had a similar experience (or an idea) please let me know.

There probably won't be a code. I just mentioned this in my response
to Matt Silvera, in fact. Once the voltage at the primary feed to the
electrical system drops below about 8 volts, the solid-state voltage
regulator for the EEC-IV drops out of regulation, and the processor
shuts down. Wham. If you're getting a shut-down-and-restart cycle,
it's probably because the load presented by the EEC-IV itself
(primarily the fuel pump and injectors) shuts off, and that lets the
voltage recover to the point the processor can come back up.

If your battery won't hold up at least 10 volts at idle with all the
accessories cranking and a full charge on board, it's probably
experiencing slow death. A fresh battery might well help out.
Otherwise, there might be an intermittent voltage drop in the wiring
harness. It might be as simple as a crufted up hot or ground terminal
at the battery.

If it's caused by the idle dropping too low with the A/C on, that
might be another issue. The EEC-IV gets the A/C clutch signal as an
input so that it can know to bump up the idle speed when the
compressor is on, as it should be when the defroster is running. If
that's not happening, you can trace that circuit out and fix it.

-skod

- --
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : (email redacted)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Clifton Koch)


> | 2) I have a problem with the engine when an accesory is turned on
> | (defroster, A/C, etc.) ***The engine idle lowers at idle*** and the voltage
> gauge
> | takes a dip to about 8 or 9 volts. Also when the defroster is on while
> | the car is running at highway speed, and I step on the clutch(or place
> | the car in nuetral) the tach shows the RPM dip to below ~500 shoot back
> | up to ~1000 ( I assume normal) and then drop to zero ( in effect stalling).

You shouldn't see the voltage dip that far, ever. The battery itself should
be able to maintain a higher voltage level than that for a fair amount of time.
Was this the factory gauge? If so, I wouldn't trust its reading too much, but
it does sound like there's a problem here. See below.

> | I plan on hooking up an EEC-IV computer analyzer and check the codes, but
> | my friend said that it can be difficult to determine the problem by doing
> | this if you don't already have a idea of what the problem is. So if
> | anyone has had a similar experience (or an idea) please let me know.
> |
> If it's an '87 or newer, you can use a jumper wire and read the codes off the
> Check Engine light. Chuck's FTP archive contains files describing the
> procedure. You'll want to look at "How to Understand, Service and Modify
> Ford
> Fuel Injection and Engine Control Systems" by Charles Probst for a complete
> list of EEC IV codes. There's nothing difficult about it except that the
> problem isn't necessarily with one of the sensors that the computer tests.
> Unfortunately, I think the clutch position sensor may be one of these.

The speed density cars do not have a check engine light installed (though
there is a spot for one in the tach), nor can the computer sink enough current
to drive a bulb if it was installed. The check engine light came in with MAF or
shortly after, so you'd need a voltmeter to read the codes from the test
connector. The scanners are handy, but way overpriced for what you get.

As to the problem. It sort of sounds like it's more of a battery or power
wiring problem. The battery's either too weak to supply the current for the
accessories at high-load idle conditions, or there is a poor connection
somewhere in the system causing a high voltage drop.

Another possibility is the EEC has some signals to raise the idle speed when
heavy electrical load items are used. I believe these include headlights, high
heater fan speed, AC, and rear window defroster. It does have an error code
associated with these signals, but it will only show up during KOEO tests when
one of these items is on during the test. The EEC has no way of knowing when
the signal isn't working, it only knows that all electrical accessories are
supposed to be off during the KOEO tests, so having one of them turned on will
produce an error code to turn it off.

Cliff

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Koch
Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Division
(email redacted)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Theodore Chen <(email redacted)>


> The speed density cars do not have a check engine light installed (though
>there is a spot for one in the tach), nor can the computer sink enough current
>to drive a bulb if it was installed. The check engine light came in with
>MAF or shortly after, so you'd need a voltmeter to read the codes from the
>test connector. The scanners are handy, but way overpriced for what you get.

my mustang is an '87, and it does have a light installed. the light
goes on when i start the engine (though apparently only on cold starts).
i've never seen it go on at any other time, though. i should try running
the EEC-IV self-test to see if the check engine light flashes. the light
is also dim and hard to see.

-teddy