Fordnatics List Archive

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Mail From: "Theodore A. Chen" <(email redacted)>


ok, what's the scoop? i've acquired a fairly stout oil cooler
that came out of a trans-am car, and i was going to go find an
oil cooler thermostat (with 12-AN fittings, no less) to use with
the oil cooler. after skod's ravings, i'm not so sure now.
simplicity sounds like a good idea.

BTW, my car is a stock '87 GT that lives in sunny california
and will not be getting groceries in alaska. it's also headed to
the track.

so is it a good idea to get the oil cooler thermostat? should i or
shouldn't i? can i just cover up part or all of the oil cooler on the
street?

-teddy

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)

On Feb 2, Theodore A. Chen wrote:

> ok, what's the scoop? i've acquired a fairly stout oil cooler
> that came out of a trans-am car, and i was going to go find an
> oil cooler thermostat (with 12-AN fittings, no less) to use with
> the oil cooler. after skod's ravings, i'm not so sure now.
> simplicity sounds like a good idea.
> so is it a good idea to get the oil cooler thermostat? should i or
> shouldn't i? can i just cover up part or all of the oil cooler on the
> street?

If you get a good oil thermostat, and plumb it well, it'll probably
work just fine, and you'll wonder what I was so concerned about.
However, for every plumbing fitting and joint added into the system,
IMHO the overall reliability is reduced by some fraction. And, given
my dislike for playing with the powertrain (and _especially_ the
oiling system!), my personal optimization is to make it as simple as
possible. For my soon-to-be track-only car, the problem of overcooling
the oil is a non-problem.

A oil-air heat exchanger and good ducting would be able to keep up
with the heat loads produced by your engine. If intalled properly, it
could be as reliable as you like. I just choose to spend my scant
wrenching hours on things that amuse me more, like braking and chassis
tuning. I can't bring myself to believe that external oil plumbing is
zero-maintenance, since it is mission-critical, after all. So I worry
about it, and spend lots of time futzing with it to make sure it stays
healthy (and given the intrinsically unhealthy nature of my old
thermostat, that was a righteous chore).

Your mileage may vary. Go right ahead and run a thermostat and
separate heat exhchanger, expecially since you already sunk the money
into it. I was just offering up an alternative to folks who were
looking for one.

And if anybody's interested, I have a Mocal oil thermostat that's a
real fixer-upper, and that would provide hours of amusement to
somebody _else_. It's available for a song. And if nobody wants it,
I'm gonna send it down to Dave Williams with the proviso that he melt
the damned thing down the next time he's pouring some aluminum...

-skod

- --
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : (email redacted)

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Dan Malek <(email redacted)>


> Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 14:23:33 -0800
> From: "Theodore A. Chen" <(email redacted)>
>
>
>ok, what's the scoop? i've acquired a fairly stout oil cooler....

>so is it a good idea to get the oil cooler thermostat? should i or
>shouldn't i? can i just cover up part or all of the oil cooler on the
>street?


Just a little to add to Skod's message. First, get an accurate
oil temperature gauge and find out where you are running. Although
this is a religious discussion, you really should be running in
the 220 to 260 degF range. Yeah, we run lots more than that in
the race car, sometimes, but we don't like to.

Only if you can't keep the temperature down should you install the
oil cooler. I know, this sounds like common sense, but are you sure
you really need it? Skod is correct about all of those connections.
They are all points of failure, and if you can do without, it is
best. Just a point of reference, we only run a cooler on our Busch GN
car because it needs it. We don't use one on the ACT car.

Changing the oil before and after track events where the oil gets
really hot should be on the same checklist along with swapping tires.
Running the fresh oil hot for one short track event is OK. Running the
oil just a little cooler for multiple events plus street driving
is asking for trouble. Don't let the cooler cause a false sense of
security or lack of maintenance.


-- Dan

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted)

Dan Westford writes:

>>Changing the oil before and after track events where the oil gets
really hot should be on the same checklist along with swapping tires.
Running the fresh oil hot for one short track event is OK. Running the
oil just a little cooler for multiple events plus street driving
is asking for trouble. Don't let the cooler cause a false sense of
security or lack of maintenance<<

Question: why is running oil cooler (i.e. below the 220 - 260 degree range)
for street driving bad for your car?? Seems like cooler would be better, but
apparently not??

Also, what if any difference does it make if you run synthetic in a hi-po
engine w/r/t the minimum oil temperature??

Thanks.

Mike in VA

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Dan Malek <(email redacted)>


> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 22:10:05 -0500
> From: (email redacted)
>

>Question: why is running oil cooler (i.e. below the 220 - 260 degree range)
>for street driving bad for your car?? Seems like cooler would be better, but
>apparently not??

There are at least two reasons. First, especially on a street car, you
want to keep the temperature high enough to boil off as many contaminants
as possible. Water normally comes to mind, but there are other hydrocarbons
you want to keep out of there. This (along with frequent oil changes) will
keep your engine free of sludge and corrosive chemicals. Second, the
higher temperature reduces the viscosity and friction. Again, with
frequent oil changes, this can be done without the loss of shear strength.

I don't think you can get a street car oil temperature much over 200
anyway. Anyone out there with oil temperature gauges want to comment?

>Also, what if any difference does it make if you run synthetic in a hi-po
>engine w/r/t the minimum oil temperature??

I don't have any long term experience with synthetic engine oil. It was
all short term.....and bad.


-- Dan

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Mail From: Shel Belinkoff <(email redacted)>


My Tempo runs at about 230-degrees, and my Ranger runs at about 210- to
220-degrees.

Shel Belinkoff
(email redacted)
_________________

On Mon, 6 Feb 1995, Dan Malek wrote:

> I don't think you can get a street car oil temperature much over 200
> anyway. Anyone out there with oil temperature gauges want to comment?

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Dan Malek <(email redacted)>


> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 12:35:07 -0500 (EST)
> From: Todd W Warner <(email redacted)>
>

>Could you describe your experiences with synthetic oil? I would like to know
>what bad experiences.

Well, I won't say much. First, it was a racing engine and we had a leading
synthetic oil company sponsor. Basically, we trashed a couple of engines
early in the season with bearing failures, something we had never seen.
The oil company engineers did not seem interested, and a pissing contest
ensued that resulted in them telling us hicks we did not know how to build
engines (and maybe we don't). Needless to say, we went back to using plain
old Kendall 20W50, right off the K-Mart shelf, and we have not had oiling
problems since.

We use synthetics everywhere else, with great results.


-- Dan

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)

On Feb 6, Dan Malek wrote:

> I don't think you can get a street car oil temperature much over 200
> anyway. Anyone out there with oil temperature gauges want to comment?

For late cars with 195degF thermostats, oil temsp will run in the
205-230degF range in normal street driving. The oil temps will almost
always run 10-20 degF higher than the coolant temp, since the oil
absorbs all the heat load from shear in the bottom end on its way to
the pan, and there's no coolant down there...

> > Also, what if any difference does it make if you run synthetic in a hi-po
> > engine w/r/t the minimum oil temperature??

> I don't have any long term experience with synthetic engine oil. It was
> all short term.....and bad.

Uh oh. I have this horrible creeping sensation at the back of my
neck that we're about to have another dose of the "dinosaur versus
synth" debate. Ya hadda bring it up, din'cha?

The answer is Mike's question seems to be "no real difference". Oil is
oil. Oil laden with contaminants and guck is probably a Bad Thing,
whether the base stock is dinosaur or synthetic. It needs to get warm
enough to drive off the volatile moisture-based condensates before
they form varnishes and sludge. The sludge-formation tendencies of the
syntheticss may be lower, and then again it may not. The bottom line
is that regardless of which flavor/religion you subscribe to, keep the
oil fresh and clean, and the machine will serve you well.

-skod

- --
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : (email redacted)