Fordnatics List Archive

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Mail From: chucko (Chuck Fry)

The only caveats about avgas are: (1) Stochiometric is not the same as
with street gas -- I don't remember whether it wants to run richer or
leaner. (2) If you don't pay the motor fuels tax (which won't be
included in the pump price), you could have some explaining to do to the
state and Federal revenooers should you get caught.

A third issue is that "low-lead" is relative only to older avgas --
there's LOTS more lead in there than was in late '80s street gas,
something like 2 gm/gal. This much lead can do interesting things to
spark plugs, things you might not have seen in 2 decades of low- and
no-lead street gas. In recreational driving I wouldn't worry (much)
about the pollution, but IMHO the less lead in the environment, the
better.

I'm not saying "don't do it", just be aware that it's not a slam-dunk
fix.
-- Chuck

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Mail From: "Darius Rudis" <(email redacted)>

[Forwarded from the -request address. Send list submissions to:
(email redacted) -- Chuck]

My 2 cents worth.... The avgas has a higher Reid Vaporization Pressure (RVP).
For simplicity, this is the ability to evaporate (diffuse). Have you ever
heard of the problems of running *summer* gas in the winter? The fuel doesnt
dissipate well and you have "wet flow" problems. Dont run the stuff...

Regards,
Darius Rudis (DRUDIS)
Facilities, Materials and Services Purchasing Systems
(313)84-50209 Room 219-B Westpark Center Dearborn

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Mail From: Roland Dudley <(email redacted)>

>
> [ Chuck's cautions regarding the use of Avgas deleted]
>
> I'm not saying "don't do it", just be aware that it's not a slam-dunk
> fix.
> -- Chuck

Besides the pitfalls Chuck describes, it just plain inconvenient. Avgas
and race gas may be okay for track use but not much good for touring.

Roland

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Mail From: JACKDETH <(email redacted)>



On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Roland Dudley wrote:

> >
> > [ Chuck's cautions regarding the use of Avgas deleted]
> >
> > I'm not saying "don't do it", just be aware that it's not a slam-dunk
> > fix.
> > -- Chuck
>
> Besides the pitfalls Chuck describes, it just plain inconvenient. Avgas
> and race gas may be okay for track use but not much good for touring.
>
> Roland
>

What about running Avgas on a late model. Just how much lead is in Avgas
and will it harm the O2 sensors? I run Sunnoco GT+ (110 octane unleaded),
but it is much more expensive than Avgas.

Jack Deth

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Mail From: (email redacted) (Neil Narwani)

> What about running Avgas on a late model. Just how much lead is in Avgas
> and will it harm the O2 sensors? I run Sunnoco GT+ (110 octane unleaded),
> but it is much more expensive than Avgas.
>
> Jack Deth

I'm not sure about the O2 sensors, but I believe the lead kills the
catylitic converters. As for the whether or not the amount of lead
in Avgas is enough to do this, I'm not sure. Any one else...?

-Neil.




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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: chucko (Chuck Fry)

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:24:16 -0500
From: (email redacted) (Neil Narwani)

> What about running Avgas on a late model. Just how much lead is in Avgas
> and will it harm the O2 sensors? I run Sunnoco GT+ (110 octane unleaded),
> but it is much more expensive than Avgas.

I'm not sure about the O2 sensors, but I believe the lead kills the
catylitic converters. As for the whether or not the amount of lead
in Avgas is enough to do this, I'm not sure. Any one else...?

Disclaimer: this is 3rd-hand info. Verify this with a real expert
before using leaded gas in a car you care about.

The catalysts will be killed pretty quickly by lead poisoning; one
tankful will do them in. If you're running leaded gas at the track,
remove the catalysts first. (If you're running leaded gas on the street
in the US, I don't want to know about it.)

However, the oxygen sensors should survive short exposures to leaded
gas. The folks on the Formula SAE list have had reasonable success with
this. You might even want to treat O2 sensors as single-use disposable
items like race tires, since they're only about $60 a pair, and some
folks I know spend a lot more than that on race parts for a weekend!

I have heard some of the folks running brand-B turbo V6s (no names
please :-) even manage to clean up lead-fouled sensors between weekend
blasts at the strip by treating them to a diet of unleaded on the
street.

Note that the late-model computer controlled cars are absolutely
dependent on functioning oxygen sensors to set the mixture. Soon as the
sensors die, the air/fuel ratio goes to hell, typically rich I think.
Again, check with an expert before taking my word on this.

-- Chuck

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Mail From: "Bob Hickman" <(email redacted)>

Reply to: Re: Avgas (was: HP289 Rebuild Questions)

Fordnatics,

I'm not an expert in the field of petroleum, but thought I'd pass along some
information.

Leaded gas was sold by Chevron in Canada until about 1991 or 1992 ( can't
remember for sure ). This was well into the era of catalytic converters, O2
sensors, and all the other goodies that go along with electronically fuel
injected motors. I don't know how much lead was actually contained in the gas
but it was definitely there. It was marketed as "the champagne of gasolines".
To use alcoholic beverages as an analogy, it may have been the Bud Lite of
leaded gasoline, but it sure wasn't de-alcoholized.

Any other Canadian Fordnatics with more information?

Bob Hickman

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Mail From: INTERACT! User <(email redacted)>

im pretty sure av gas is unleaded....as with conforming to EPA rules
its not the same stuff as before guys....thats the info i get from
a aircraft mech.

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Mail From: (email redacted) (Neil Narwani)

> im pretty sure av gas is unleaded....as with conforming to EPA rules
> its not the same stuff as before guys....thats the info i get from
> a aircraft mech.

Nope. I have to disagree.
Aviation fuel comes in a few different grades. The ones are I know
are 100LL (the blue stuff), 110LL and Jet-A. The "LL" stands for
low-lead, but I'm not exactly sure how low. It's been a year since
I've flown, so I called my local FBO to find out. They said that
it's the same. (Actually, the lady on the phone sounded like she
thought I was some sort of weirdo asking if they still used lead in
aviation fuel -- it was funny).

-Neil.


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