Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: perri (Tony Perri)

My car's oil smoke has become past embarrassing.
Pretty sure it's valves.
- first few seconds of startup
- after idling (especially when warm)
- only during the first acceleration from a stop, not on subsequent
pedal mashes.

So I'm on a quest to replace valve stem seals without removing heads.

The engine appears to be a 68 302 with a 'recent' (7 yrs, 40K miles)
rebuild. 140-150 psi compression in all cyls.
Still has rail rockers, so I don't think there's anything unusual in the
valvetrain.

Hoping to get some advice before wrenching.

-> Experience / Chance of success
- anybody done this before and been successful ?

-> Source
- most of the Mustang specific catalogs don't seem to list these
- is this a straight auto parts store item ?
- any good or bad recommendations ?
- seems like Felpro has a set, hoping that's what I can find locally

-> Tips
- I plan to remove all the spark plugs, line up the cylinder to TDC
(or close), put in gear, pump continuous air into the cylinder, remove
the spring, remove old seal, put on new seal, reverse the rest.
- thoughts on how much air pressure will keep the valve seated ?
- other helpful hints ?

Thanks for any help,
Tony Perri

-- 67 Fastback

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Mail From: RRobaldo (Lance Robaldo)

Not sure about air pressure, heard a few horror stories there...but I've heard
of this being done before with rope....

You want to have the piston near the bottom of it's rotation, then stuff a bunch
of nylon rope through the spark plug hole (leaving enough tail to pull it back
out), then turn the engine by hand until the rope compresses against the valves
and holds them in place.

Removing the springs should then be easy without dropping a valve.

Lance.


->-----Original Message-----
->From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca [mailto:classic-mustangs-
->bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Tony Perri
->Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:19 AM
->To: RRobaldo at wltsoftware.com
->Subject: [CM] Valve Stem Seals
->
->My car's oil smoke has become past embarrassing.
->Pretty sure it's valves.
->- first few seconds of startup
->- after idling (especially when warm)
->- only during the first acceleration from a stop, not on subsequent
->pedal mashes.
->
->So I'm on a quest to replace valve stem seals without removing heads.
->
->The engine appears to be a 68 302 with a 'recent' (7 yrs, 40K miles)
->rebuild. 140-150 psi compression in all cyls.
->Still has rail rockers, so I don't think there's anything unusual in the
->valvetrain.
->
->Hoping to get some advice before wrenching.
->
->-> Experience / Chance of success
-> - anybody done this before and been successful ?
->
->-> Source
-> - most of the Mustang specific catalogs don't seem to list these
-> - is this a straight auto parts store item ?
-> - any good or bad recommendations ?
-> - seems like Felpro has a set, hoping that's what I can find locally
->
->-> Tips
-> - I plan to remove all the spark plugs, line up the cylinder to TDC
->(or close), put in gear, pump continuous air into the cylinder, remove
->the spring, remove old seal, put on new seal, reverse the rest.
-> - thoughts on how much air pressure will keep the valve seated ?
-> - other helpful hints ?
->
->Thanks for any help,
->Tony Perri
->
->-- 67 Fastback
->_______________________________________________
->Classic-mustangs mailing list
->Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
->lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
->
->Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)

Rope? Interesting. I've done it with air. The secret there is to get
a spark plug adapter with a secure air hose and a quick connect that
fits what you use with your air system. But, even then you can only
exert a certain poundage before it will collapse (air pressure x surface
area of the valve). It can work, but it's a real pain, especially if
your keepers have been on there a while.

>Removing the springs should then be easy without dropping a valve.

Maybe I'm jaded because I've only tried this on performance springs, but
IMHO, removing the springs is never easy. Even with the heads off the
car it's not a piece of cake.

IMHO, if you're going to remove the springs, you might as well take the
heads off, do a real valve job, and clean the carbon out of the
combustion chambers. Doing it right will probably not take much, if any
time longer, and in the end you may save yourself some real frustration.

Keven

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: walt (Walt Boeninger)



Tony Perri wrote:


> -> Tips
> - I plan to remove all the spark plugs, line up the cylinder to TDC
> (or close), put in gear, pump continuous air into the cylinder, remove
> the spring, remove old seal, put on new seal, reverse the rest.

make sure you put wheel chocks on both sides of the tire and leave
it in gear ... hmmm ... hope it's a manual, otherwise nothing
will prevent the air pressure from turning over the motor. I've
had the car creep during a leakdown test....

--

Regards
--------------
Walt Boeninger
mailto:webmaster at norcal-saac.org
boeninger.net
shelbytransam.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: dharrelson (Dennis Harrelson)

I've done it on a 302, stock valves and springs, but the engine had
compression all over the place, and air leaked into the pan as I was
working, but it worked really well and was easy. The engine _was_ on a
stand, though.
IIRC, I used the hose from my compression guage, which came with the plug
adapter, and a spring compressor that's held by the nut on the rocker stud
and just levers the spring down.
Piece 'o cake
Later,
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Perri" <perri at btv.ibm.com>
To: "Dennis Harrelson" <dharrelson at embarqmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:19 AM
Subject: [CM] Valve Stem Seals


> My car's oil smoke has become past embarrassing.
> Pretty sure it's valves.
> - first few seconds of startup
> - after idling (especially when warm)
> - only during the first acceleration from a stop, not on subsequent
> pedal mashes.
>
> So I'm on a quest to replace valve stem seals without removing heads.
>
> The engine appears to be a 68 302 with a 'recent' (7 yrs, 40K miles)
> rebuild. 140-150 psi compression in all cyls.
> Still has rail rockers, so I don't think there's anything unusual in the
> valvetrain.
>
> Hoping to get some advice before wrenching.
>
> -> Experience / Chance of success
> - anybody done this before and been successful ?
>
> -> Source
> - most of the Mustang specific catalogs don't seem to list these
> - is this a straight auto parts store item ?
> - any good or bad recommendations ?
> - seems like Felpro has a set, hoping that's what I can find locally
>
> -> Tips
> - I plan to remove all the spark plugs, line up the cylinder to TDC
> (or close), put in gear, pump continuous air into the cylinder, remove
> the spring, remove old seal, put on new seal, reverse the rest.
> - thoughts on how much air pressure will keep the valve seated ?
> - other helpful hints ?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Tony Perri
>
> -- 67 Fastback
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008
> 6:50 PM
>
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)

Yeah, I missed the part where it had a recent rebuild. I think the
lever is the key, as Dennis mentioned. I didn't have a lever, I just
used the hammer method (where you have something that fits over the
valve stem, and you hit the spring with a non-marring hammer and the
keepers just fly off), which is a little scary and doesn't work that
well.

If you had a lever and the keepers didn't stick, it wouldn't be too
hard.

Keven

-

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: perri (Tony Perri)

I usually use a socket to tap the spring retainer and hopefully free it
from the keeper. Then, a screw type compressor to smoothly compress the
spring and take the keeper off.

I'm not opposed to removing the heads; the intake gasket is a source of
oil on this engine. Last time I removed heads I let loose a fair amount
of coolant into the cylinders !

Any hints on avoiding a repeat ?

Thanks for all the help,
Tony

Coates, Keven wrote:
> Yeah, I missed the part where it had a recent rebuild. I think the
> lever is the key, as Dennis mentioned. I didn't have a lever, I just
> used the hammer method (where you have something that fits over the
> valve stem, and you hit the spring with a non-marring hammer and the
> keepers just fly off), which is a little scary and doesn't work that
> well.
>
> If you had a lever and the keepers didn't stick, it wouldn't be too
> hard.
>
> Keven

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mahilly (Mike H)

Hmmm...drain the coolant first? When I rebuilt my engine (eons ago) the
valve seals had all but disintegrated. I found the fragmented remains in
the oil pan and pump screen. So plan on pulling your oil pan while you are
at it.

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Tony Perri <perri at btv.ibm.com> wrote:

> I usually use a socket to tap the spring retainer and hopefully free it
> from the keeper. Then, a screw type compressor to smoothly compress the
> spring and take the keeper off.
>
> I'm not opposed to removing the heads; the intake gasket is a source of
> oil on this engine. Last time I removed heads I let loose a fair amount
> of coolant into the cylinders !
>
> Any hints on avoiding a repeat ?
>
> Thanks for all the help,
> Tony
>
> Coates, Keven wrote:
> > Yeah, I missed the part where it had a recent rebuild. I think the
> > lever is the key, as Dennis mentioned. I didn't have a lever, I just
> > used the hammer method (where you have something that fits over the
> > valve stem, and you hit the spring with a non-marring hammer and the
> > keepers just fly off), which is a little scary and doesn't work that
> > well.
> >
> > If you had a lever and the keepers didn't stick, it wouldn't be too
> > hard.
> >
> > Keven
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>
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Mail From: ckelly (Chris Kelly)

There are drain plugs on both sides of the block. During a rebuild, I drill
the stockers out and replace them with nice threaded brass plugs.

You can use air or get a length of window sash cord and feed that into the
cylinder with the piston at BDC. Then turn the motor slowly to compress the
cord. That will hold the valves in place for a spring/seal R&R.

However, if you decide to pull the heads, a shop should be able to cut the
guides to accept Viton seals. The Ford 2.9L V6 parts are popular and have a
long life.
=====================================
Chris Kelly - ckelly at raceabilene.com
raceabilene.net/kelly/hotrod
Merkel, Texas
Member:
International Hot Rod Association
Abilene Performance Car Association
Falcon Club of America
=====================================


> -----Original Message-----
> From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
> [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On
> Behalf Of Tony Perri
> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:41 PM
> To: Chris Kelly
> Subject: Re: [CM] Valve Stem Seals
>
> I usually use a socket to tap the spring retainer and
> hopefully free it from the keeper. Then, a screw type
> compressor to smoothly compress the spring and take the keeper off.
>
> I'm not opposed to removing the heads; the intake gasket is a
> source of oil on this engine. Last time I removed heads I let
> loose a fair amount of coolant into the cylinders !
>
> Any hints on avoiding a repeat ?
>
> Thanks for all the help,
> Tony
>
> Coates, Keven wrote:
> > Yeah, I missed the part where it had a recent rebuild. I think the
> > lever is the key, as Dennis mentioned. I didn't have a
> lever, I just
> > used the hammer method (where you have something that fits over the
> > valve stem, and you hit the spring with a non-marring
> hammer and the
> > keepers just fly off), which is a little scary and doesn't
> work that
> > well.
> >
> > If you had a lever and the keepers didn't stick, it wouldn't be too
> > hard.
> >
> > Keven
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>