Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: Lyman Ethan Brown (email redacted)





I recently got my 64 &1/2 coupe running. It has a 289 with 11.5 to one
and lots of valve, cam, and horespower. I have a problem with a couple
cylinders which keep fouling out plugs. It appears to run extremely
rich at idle because of the black smoke and hesitation, therefore I
belive this to be causing the fouling of the plugs. It has a Holley
600.

How can I lean out my idle mixture? can you change jets? What will
changing the float level do? Whats involved in changing out the
metering blocks? I want lots of gas, but not till about 3000 R's. I
think I need a leaner low rpm fuel mix, does anyone know how to get this

with a Holley 600 single line feed, vac secondaries? Any ideas?

The car also has a huge bog about 1700 rpm when punched, Im guessing
this is due tof the same reason.

Thank you in advance for any advice.
Ethan Brown
64 & 1/2 coupe project
91 LX 5.0 conv.





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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Mark Dixon (email redacted)

Sounds like you want the best of both worlds - heaps of gas at hand when
needed, but reliable and lean when you're not mean. While you can alter the
jets, they're basically for city driving or fast highway and you can't get
one for both applications. If you're bogging down at 1700, you might have a
flat spot in the carb and a kit is called for. The only suggestion I can
come up with is to run a hotter plug.

Cheeers


Mark Dixon
Capital Classics
Canberra

Check the Upgraded Capital Classics Web Site
:"capitalclassics.cyberone.com.au"
-----Original Message-----
From: Lyman Ethan Brown <(email redacted)>
To: (email redacted) <(email redacted)>
Date: 28 December, 1998 3:21 PM
Subject: [CM:15192] too rich/ idle/ fouls plugs


>
>
>
>
>I recently got my 64 &1/2 coupe running. It has a 289 with 11.5 to one
>and lots of valve, cam, and horespower. I have a problem with a couple
>cylinders which keep fouling out plugs. It appears to run extremely
>rich at idle because of the black smoke and hesitation, therefore I
>belive this to be causing the fouling of the plugs. It has a Holley
>600.
>
>How can I lean out my idle mixture? can you change jets? What will
>changing the float level do? Whats involved in changing out the
>metering blocks? I want lots of gas, but not till about 3000 R's. I
>think I need a leaner low rpm fuel mix, does anyone know how to get this
>
>with a Holley 600 single line feed, vac secondaries? Any ideas?
>
>The car also has a huge bog about 1700 rpm when punched, Im guessing
>this is due tof the same reason.
>
>Thank you in advance for any advice.
>Ethan Brown
>64 & 1/2 coupe project
>91 LX 5.0 conv.
>
>
>
>
>
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>



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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (email redacted)

Ethan,

It sounds as though you might have several problems, or
at least areas to check. First, since you have a lot of
cam you need to verify that your power valve isn't
coming open at idle (not likely). There is a number
stamped on the power valve (primary only) that shows
what vacuum it opens. Make sure this number is at least
2 less than your idle vacuum. Holley 1850-2 (what you
probably have) come with 65 generally. The power valve
opening at idle will really richen the fuel mixture.

The float levels should be adjusted so that fuel just
begins to drip out the check hole on the side of the
carb. By raising and lowering the float level, it will
determine when the main circuits come in. For now, set
this to specs.

The idle screws (rich-lean)are the needle-tipped
adjusters in the primary block only! There are no idle
screws in the secondary. The idle speed screw is on the
side of the carb for the primary, and (tough to get to
w/o removing the carb) the secondary screw is accessed
from the bottom of the carb near the vacuum diaphram
connection at the throttle shaft.

Holley makes a kit (probably around 20 bucks or so) that
will convert your secondary metering plates to a
metering block with removable jets. There are more
expensive trick parts that will allow removable jets
that are also quick change (you don't have to remove the
fuel bowl).

Another thing to check, since you have a few plugs that
show rich, make sure the ignition (especially for those
plugs) is working correctly. Sometimes those ignition
problems look like fuel problems and can really get ya!

My advice in a nutshell, get the car running by sticking
to the Holley recommendations, make sure the ignition is
OK, then once you get the plug fouling taken care of,
then begin to play with the carb.

Hope this helps,
Dave



On 12/28/98 00:21:18 you wrote:
>I recently got my 64 &1/2 coupe running. It has a 289
with 11.5 to one
>and lots of valve, cam, and horespower. I have a
problem with a couple
>cylinders which keep fouling out plugs.
>...
>How can I lean out my idle mixture? can you change
jets? What will
>changing the float level do? Whats involved in
changing out the
>metering blocks?
...
>The car also has a huge bog about 1700 rpm when
punched, Im guessing
>this is due tof the same reason.



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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Steve Kent (email redacted)

I recently had a similar problem. Extremely rich idle, slow starting when
hot and left for a few minutes, and the engine oil smelled badly of raw
fuel. It turned out that the power valve diaphragm was ruptured, allowing
engine vacuum to draw massive amounts of unmetered fuel into the intake
plenum. When the car had been running and was turned off, gravity and
residual fuel pressure would empty the primary float bowl into the engine,
causing the hard starting/flooding. When the car sat in this condition, the
fuel would get past the rings and contaminate the engine oil.

So bottom line is, check your float bowl level first and then pull out that
metering block and take a look at the power valve. Once the valve is dried
of any gasoline, you can suck on it to see if the valve will close, with no
leaks.

Good luck.

Regards,
Steve Kent

Lyman Ethan Brown wrote:

> I recently got my 64 &1/2 coupe running. It has a 289 with 11.5 to one
> and lots of valve, cam, and horespower. I have a problem with a couple
> cylinders which keep fouling out plugs. It appears to run extremely
> rich at idle because of the black smoke and hesitation, therefore I
> belive this to be causing the fouling of the plugs. It has a Holley
> 600.
>
> How can I lean out my idle mixture? can you change jets? What will
> changing the float level do? Whats involved in changing out the
> metering blocks? I want lots of gas, but not till about 3000 R's. I
> think I need a leaner low rpm fuel mix, does anyone know how to get this
>
> with a Holley 600 single line feed, vac secondaries? Any ideas?
>
> The car also has a huge bog about 1700 rpm when punched, Im guessing
> this is due tof the same reason.
>
> Thank you in advance for any advice.
> Ethan Brown
> 64 & 1/2 coupe project
> 91 LX 5.0 conv.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> All the list info you'll ever want: antler.moose.to/~server/cm



--
Steve Kent
'67 Coupe - netcom.com/~skent/mustang/1967/67stang.html
'90 LX - netcom.com/~skent/mustang/1990/90stang.html
'96 Explorer XLT V8



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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Lyman Ethan Brown (email redacted)

what will a hotter plug do? where do I get them? How do you tell if its a hot
plug?

Mark Dixon wrote:

> Sounds like you want the best of both worlds - heaps of gas at hand when
> needed, but reliable and lean when you're not mean. While you can alter the
> jets, they're basically for city driving or fast highway and you can't get
> one for both applications. If you're bogging down at 1700, you might have a
> flat spot in the carb and a kit is called for. The only suggestion I can
> come up with is to run a hotter plug.
>
> Cheeers
>
> Mark Dixon
> Capital Classics
> Canberra
>
> Check the Upgraded Capital Classics Web Site
> :"capitalclassics.cyberone.com.au"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lyman Ethan Brown <(email redacted)>
> To: (email redacted) <(email redacted)>
> Date: 28 December, 1998 3:21 PM
> Subject: [CM:15192] too rich/ idle/ fouls plugs
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I recently got my 64 &1/2 coupe running. It has a 289 with 11.5 to one
> >and lots of valve, cam, and horespower. I have a problem with a couple
> >cylinders which keep fouling out plugs. It appears to run extremely
> >rich at idle because of the black smoke and hesitation, therefore I
> >belive this to be causing the fouling of the plugs. It has a Holley
> >600.
> >
> >How can I lean out my idle mixture? can you change jets? What will
> >changing the float level do? Whats involved in changing out the
> >metering blocks? I want lots of gas, but not till about 3000 R's. I
> >think I need a leaner low rpm fuel mix, does anyone know how to get this
> >
> >with a Holley 600 single line feed, vac secondaries? Any ideas?
> >
> >The car also has a huge bog about 1700 rpm when punched, Im guessing
> >this is due tof the same reason.
> >
> >Thank you in advance for any advice.
> >Ethan Brown
> >64 & 1/2 coupe project
> >91 LX 5.0 conv.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >All the list info you'll ever want: antler.moose.to/~server/cm
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> All the list info you'll ever want: antler.moose.to/~server/cm




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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: GREGORY E. RIEBEN (email redacted)

Ethan,
No offense, but in my experience, the vacuum Holley 600 is best employed as
a boat anchor. But only for a really, really small boat.
I was sold on Holleys, and thought that was the only way to go until I
bought a Carter 9605 (600 cfm). Carters DO NOT BOG. Something to do with
vacuum drop fuel enrichment using metering rods instead of those stupid
power valves, or something. If you want all out power, get a 4150 Holley
double pumper. Otherwise, just get a Carter. They are cheaper, easier to
work on, more adjustable, and they almost always run great right out of the
box with no hassles. They don't have fuel slosh problems, fuel leaks at
the float bowl, and mixture adjustments can be accomplished by mearly
changing metering rods, rather than tearing the carb apart, breaking
gaskets, spilling gas, etc. just to change jets. (I should mention the
metering rods are more expensive than jets to change, but I still feel you
will be happier with the Carter.
Just my two cents.
You might try adjusting the float level on your Holley, otherwise, a
rebuild kit complete with accelerator pump diaphragm, new power valve,
needle valves, etc, is not too much money (assuming your carb is worn out).
Just a guess, but it really sounds like the fuel level may be too high.
If you have not yet heard from another source, float level adjustment is
very easily accomplished. Remove the sight plug on the side of the float
bowl. If your level is too high, copious quantities of fuel will start
dumping out. Not good. Don't do this with the motor real warm. Loosen
the lock screw on the top of the float bowl with a flat blade screw driver.
Gas will start leaking here too, if the motor is running. This is normal.
Float adjustment can then be accomplished by turning the hex jut
underneath the lock screw. Turning the nut right (like you were tightening
it) will lower the fuel level in the carb. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE LOOSENED THE
LOCK SCREW ADEQUATELY. If not, you WILL strip it out when you turn the hex
nut. You will need to back it out more and more as you turn the hex nut to
lower the float level. Fuel level should be just at the bottom of the
sight plug when you are done. Unfortunately, you must do this with the
motor running, so be careful!!
Don't forget to tighten everything when you are done.
If you have any more questions you can email me directly, but I may not
know a whole lot more.
Greg

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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Mark Dixon (email redacted)

All plugs have heat ranges. "Cold" plugs don't burn all the fuel as there
are variances in the combustibility of the fuel. "Hot" plugs have a more
powerful spark and tend to light up all the fuel available for burning on
the top of the compression stroke. They don't last as long as the added
temperatures wear them out quicker, however, in your case, assuming
everything else is OK, it sounds a worthwhile measure.

Most auto part stores should have them - if the plug boxes don't show the
difference, ask one of the older hands to help. Some of the Ford Dealers
should be able to help out as well.

Cheeers

Mark Dixon
Capital Classics
Canberra

Check the Upgraded Capital Classics Web Site
:"capitalclassics.cyberone.com.au"
-----Original Message-----
From: Lyman Ethan Brown <(email redacted)>
To: (email redacted) <(email redacted)>
Date: 29 December, 1998 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: [CM:15202] too rich/ idle/ fouls plugs


>what will a hotter plug do? where do I get them? How do you tell if its a
hot
>plug?
>



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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Chris Stephens (email redacted)

Check out this site for more info strappe.com/plugs.html It is
about bikes but it has great info..
also ngksparkplugs.com/Pages/faq4.html more good info.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Dixon <(email redacted)>
To: (email redacted) <(email redacted)>
Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [CM:15210] too rich/ idle/ fouls plugs


>All plugs have heat ranges. "Cold" plugs don't burn all the fuel as there
>are variances in the combustibility of the fuel. "Hot" plugs have a more
>powerful spark and tend to light up all the fuel available for burning on
>the top of the compression stroke. They don't last as long as the added
>temperatures wear them out quicker, however, in your case, assuming
>everything else is OK, it sounds a worthwhile measure.
>
>Most auto part stores should have them - if the plug boxes don't show the
>difference, ask one of the older hands to help. Some of the Ford Dealers
>should be able to help out as well.
>
>Cheeers
>
>Mark Dixon
>Capital Classics
>Canberra
>
>Check the Upgraded Capital Classics Web Site
>:"capitalclassics.cyberone.com.au"
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lyman Ethan Brown <(email redacted)>
>To: (email redacted) <(email redacted)>
>Date: 29 December, 1998 5:01 AM
>Subject: Re: [CM:15202] too rich/ idle/ fouls plugs
>
>
>>what will a hotter plug do? where do I get them? How do you tell if its
a
>hot
>>plug?
>>
>
>
>
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Russell Kumpe (email redacted)

Ethan,

If you have the metering plate on the secondaries, you can do like I did
and buy a kit that lets you convert the secondaries to a metering block.
Then you can adjust the secondary jets. By changing the spring in the
vacuum diaphragm you can adjust when the secodaries open. I got the
metering block kit from Jegs for about $60. It was called a "Performance
Pack" and was actually put together by Barry Grant carb shop. It also cam
with springs, accel. pump cams, some jets, etc. A quick change diaphragm
cover is about $8. I don't know if this will solve your problem, but
perhaps you could use smaller jets in the primaries and set the secondaries
to open around 3k rpm. I guess you would need a single plane open plenum
intake?

You might try playing with the springs before you go to this trouble. Its
easy and cheap.

No expert, but lots of ideas,
Russell Kumpe
(email redacted)
>From: Lyman Ethan Brown <(email redacted)>
>Subject: too rich/ idle/ fouls plugs


>I recently got my 64 &1/2 coupe running. It has a 289 with 11.5 to one
>and lots of valve, cam, and horespower. I have a problem with a couple
>cylinders which keep fouling out plugs. It appears to run extremely
>rich at idle because of the black smoke and hesitation, therefore I
>belive this to be causing the fouling of the plugs. It has a Holley
>600.
>
>How can I lean out my idle mixture? can you change jets? What will
>changing the float level do? Whats involved in changing out the
>metering blocks? I want lots of gas, but not till about 3000 R's. I
>think I need a leaner low rpm fuel mix, does anyone know how to get this
>
>with a Holley 600 single line feed, vac secondaries? Any ideas?
>
>The car also has a huge bog about 1700 rpm when punched, Im guessing
>this is due tof the same reason.
>
>Thank you in advance for any advice.
>Ethan Brown
>64 & 1/2 coupe project
>91 LX 5.0 conv.
>
>



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