Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: michael.hallman ((email redacted))

Michael,

Where did your purchase your new ammeter? Although I haven't done any
extensive searching, I haven't seen the ammeter available as a replacement.
It seems to me that all the other gauges but the ammeter are readily
available.

My 66 is typical. If I look real close when turning on the headlights with
the engine off I might see just the slightest deflection of the needle. When
I had the instrument cluster out to replace the bezel I checked the ammeter.
The tape around the coil was discolored like it had gotten hot. I did a quick
test by taking a AA battery and quickly touching the contacts to make sure
the needle would move and it did. I had thought about putting a resistor in
the main line that runs parallel to the ammeter to force more current through
the ammeter, but I didn't want to drop the voltage for the rest of the system
and the resistor would probalby just generate a lot of heat, all just to make
the needle move.

I would like to have it work better just so I know that the system is
charging, so I would be interesed in knowing where to get a new one.

And that's my $0.02.

Mike Hallman
66' Coupe, 200 six, C4
---------------------- Forwarded Message: ---------------------
From: "Michael J. Kupec" <(email redacted)>
To: "'A list for owners of Classic Mustangs'" <(email redacted)>
Subject: RE: [CM] Re: Them amp gauges never work, anyway.
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:05:02 -0400

The wiring harness I have is an exact OEM replacement - not a Ron Davis
(great harnesses, got one in my Bronco) or PainFull (ie: Painless)
aftermarket harness.

Wire for wire and connector for connector, the harness was an exact
replacement made by the only company that is authorized to put Ford Logo's
onto the molded connectors. I'll have to dig up the reciept from home to get
the company's name, but the harness was not "modified" to make the ammeter
work differently.

The ammeter will move noticeably if it has the correct harness attached, has
not been hacked up by years of neglect from P.O.'s and the windings on the
back of the meter have not been fried. I'm willing to say that almost all
original harnessed and ammetered Mustangs probably work very little today
because of one of the above mentioned conditions exist. It doesn't take much
to fry the windings on the back of the ammeter by mechanics who don't pay
attention to how the alternator to starter relay to battery are hooked up.

It's too bad Ford didn't do the ammeter connection the way they did the one
on their pickups. That design had the mainpower feed running through a
single loop on the back of the ammeter. Real simple clean design that
worked.


Michael J. Kupec
-------------------------------------------
Contractor Email: (email redacted)
Corporate Email: (email redacted)
LAN/WAN Services Phone: 202-463-3155
US Chamber of Commerce Cell: 703-967-7350
1615 H Street, NW Washington, D.C. 20062

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailtoemail redacted)] On
> Behalf Of mark thispot
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 12:23 PM
> To: (email redacted)
> Subject: [CM] Re: Them amp gauges never work, anyway.
>
>
> Michael,
> Your amp gauge indications may be typical for your
> aftermarket harness but
> they are NOT typical for a stock harness. Your description of the
> operation--and its shortcomings are dead-on but on an
> original stock harness
> the needle will not move noticeably from the load of interior lights,
> lighter, etc. You may see the slightest nudge turning on the
> headlights or
> the heater fan. This is normal although nearly useless :-)
>
> Perhaps the aftermarket harness maker used different gauge or
> length wire in
> the meter feed causing more needle deflection? An
> improvement, I'm sure.
>
> Mark
> 70 Mach 1
>
> >Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:09:32 -0400
> >From: "Michael J. Kupec" <(email redacted)>
> >Subject: RE: [CM] Them amp gauges never work, anyway.
> >To: "Classic Mustang" <(email redacted)>
> >Message-ID: <004101c3989d$bbd43580$2905010a@silverborg>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >Just thought I'd add my $0.02 in this thread...
> >
> >One thing you need to remember about the Mustang's Ammeter
> is that it
> >works by reading just a part of the current flow through the
> harness.
> >What Ford did was wire the meter to run in parallel between the feed
> >wire that goes between the alternator and the post on the
> starter relay
> >that connects to the battery's "+" terminal. The Ammeter
> actually reads
> >current flow in the milli-amp range vs. the higher current
> flow in the
> >heavy feed wire. This "shunt" config is similar in operation
> to how the
> >DC amp reading works on most hand held meters. Problem is, when the
> >heavy feed wire is damaged or left off and then either the engine is
> >started or even something like the car door is open, thus making the
> >large current required to light the interior lights, or the current
> >from the alternator to flow through the windings in the dash
> Ammeter,
> >you typically end up with a fried Ammeter that either barely
> works or
> >doesn't work at all.
> >
> >When I replaced the harness in my 65 with a new one, I also replaced
> >the long ago burned up Ammeter in the dash. Now When starting the
> >engine I can get swing into the "charge" zone that goes up
> to the half
> >way mark. I can also get max swing to the charge side on those times
> >when I haven't run the car in over a month and have to crank
> a while to
> >re-fill the float bowls. I'm currently running the original 65 amp
> >alternator and the indications I've described above are
> typical for a
> >stock setup.
> >
> >BTW: With the engine off and just opening the doors, the courtesy
> >lights under the dash and in the console should show a
> noticeable swing
> >toward discharge on the Ammeter. Turning on the head lights should
> >swing it even further into the discharge zone. I get a swing
> of about
> >2/3 between the center and the halfway mark on the discharge
> side when
> >my interior lights and head lights (GE Halogen types) are on and the
> >engine is off.
> >
> >Michael J. Kupec
> >-------------------------------------------
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Never get a busy signal because you are always connected
> with high-speed
> Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers.
> https://broadband.msn.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list (email redacted)
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>

_______________________________________________
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mkupec (Michael J. Kupec)

The Ammeter was available back in '96, and still is today, you just need to
know where to look. Best source of older, obsolete parts is FoMoCo.com
(fomoco.com/1965-1966-mustang-parts.shtml).

Another source - if you want a brand new Ammeter gauge - is to contact the
folks at John's Mustang (1-800-869-6894) (johnsmustang.com). I called
them this Am and they have Ammeter gauges in stock @ $129.95 - Part number:
C6ZZ-10850-B.

I would suggest before someone bought a new gauge to verify that their
wiring harness is wired correctly, to insure that a second gauge doesn't get
fried once it's installed.

BTW: I never said when I replaced my gauge, but it was back in 96 when my
horn wiring decided to fry within the steering column. I asked around and
found the one vendor that claimed he was the only one that Ford had
authorized to make repro wiring harnesses with the "FoMoCO" logo molded on
the rubber parts. His harness for my Mustang was a perfect match -
everything lined up and fit perfectly. It actually kind of upset me, being
that some parts of the engine harness didn't route the way I liked them to
route (like the harness that runs along the export brace between the
firewall and the passengers shock tower).

Maybe a clarification of some peoples statements is at hand:

The ammeter needle movement response I get is typical of an original,
factory new 65-66 Mustang with the GT cluster dash.

The ammeter needle movement response you say you're getting is typical of a
35+ year old ammeter that's seen one too many "cooking's" of it's windings,
possibly from allowing the vehicle current load to flow through it instead
of the heavy shunt wire it runs in parallel with.


Michael J. Kupec
-------------------------------------------
Contractor Email: (email redacted)
Corporate Email: (email redacted)
LAN/WAN Services Phone: 202-463-3155
US Chamber of Commerce Cell: 703-967-7350
1615 H Street, NW Washington, D.C. 20062

> -----Original Message-----
> From: (email redacted)
> [mailtoemail redacted)] On
> Behalf Of (email redacted)
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:22 AM
> To: (email redacted).
> Subject: RE: [CM] Re: Them amp gauges never work, anyway. (fwd)
>
>
> Michael,
>
> Where did your purchase your new ammeter? Although I haven't done any
> extensive searching, I haven't seen the ammeter available as
> a replacement.
> It seems to me that all the other gauges but the ammeter are readily
> available.
>
> My 66 is typical. If I look real close when turning on the
> headlights with
> the engine off I might see just the slightest deflection of
> the needle. When
> I had the instrument cluster out to replace the bezel I
> checked the ammeter.
> The tape around the coil was discolored like it had gotten
> hot. I did a quick
> test by taking a AA battery and quickly touching the contacts
> to make sure
> the needle would move and it did. I had thought about putting
> a resistor in
> the main line that runs parallel to the ammeter to force more
> current through
> the ammeter, but I didn't want to drop the voltage for the
> rest of the system
> and the resistor would probalby just generate a lot of heat,
> all just to make
> the needle move.
>
> I would like to have it work better just so I know that the system is
> charging, so I would be interesed in knowing where to get a new one.
>
> And that's my $0.02.
>
> Mike Hallman
> 66' Coupe, 200 six, C4
> ---------------------- Forwarded Message: ---------------------
> From: "Michael J. Kupec" <(email redacted)>
> To: "'A list for owners of Classic Mustangs'"
> <(email redacted)>
> Subject: RE: [CM] Re: Them amp gauges never work, anyway.
> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:05:02 -0400
>
> The wiring harness I have is an exact OEM replacement - not a
> Ron Davis (great harnesses, got one in my Bronco) or PainFull
> (ie: Painless) aftermarket harness.
>
> Wire for wire and connector for connector, the harness was an
> exact replacement made by the only company that is authorized
> to put Ford Logo's onto the molded connectors. I'll have to
> dig up the reciept from home to get the company's name, but
> the harness was not "modified" to make the ammeter work differently.
>
> The ammeter will move noticeably if it has the correct
> harness attached, has not been hacked up by years of neglect
> from P.O.'s and the windings on the back of the meter have
> not been fried. I'm willing to say that almost all original
> harnessed and ammetered Mustangs probably work very little
> today because of one of the above mentioned conditions exist.
> It doesn't take much to fry the windings on the back of the
> ammeter by mechanics who don't pay attention to how the
> alternator to starter relay to battery are hooked up.
>
> It's too bad Ford didn't do the ammeter connection the way
> they did the one on their pickups. That design had the
> mainpower feed running through a single loop on the back of
> the ammeter. Real simple clean design that worked.
>
>
> Michael J. Kupec
> -------------------------------------------
> Contractor Email: (email redacted)
> Corporate Email: (email redacted)
> LAN/WAN Services Phone: 202-463-3155
> US Chamber of Commerce Cell: 703-967-7350
> 1615 H Street, NW Washington, D.C. 20062
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: (email redacted)
> > [mailtoemail redacted)] On
> > Behalf Of mark thispot
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 12:23 PM
> > To: (email redacted)
> > Subject: [CM] Re: Them amp gauges never work, anyway.
> >
> >
> > Michael,
> > Your amp gauge indications may be typical for your
> > aftermarket harness but
> > they are NOT typical for a stock harness. Your description of the
> > operation--and its shortcomings are dead-on but on an
> > original stock harness
> > the needle will not move noticeably from the load of
> interior lights,
> > lighter, etc. You may see the slightest nudge turning on the
> > headlights or
> > the heater fan. This is normal although nearly useless :-)
> >
> > Perhaps the aftermarket harness maker used different gauge or
> > length wire in
> > the meter feed causing more needle deflection? An
> > improvement, I'm sure.
> >
> > Mark
> > 70 Mach 1
> >
> > >Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:09:32 -0400
> > >From: "Michael J. Kupec" <(email redacted)>
> > >Subject: RE: [CM] Them amp gauges never work, anyway.
> > >To: "Classic Mustang" <(email redacted)>
> > >Message-ID: <004101c3989d$bbd43580$2905010a@silverborg>
> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > >Just thought I'd add my $0.02 in this thread...
> > >
> > >One thing you need to remember about the Mustang's Ammeter
> > is that it
> > >works by reading just a part of the current flow through the
> > harness.
> > >What Ford did was wire the meter to run in parallel
> between the feed
> > >wire that goes between the alternator and the post on the
> > starter relay
> > >that connects to the battery's "+" terminal. The Ammeter
> > actually reads
> > >current flow in the milli-amp range vs. the higher current
> > flow in the
> > >heavy feed wire. This "shunt" config is similar in operation
> > to how the
> > >DC amp reading works on most hand held meters. Problem is, when the
> > >heavy feed wire is damaged or left off and then either the
> engine is
> > >started or even something like the car door is open, thus
> making the
> > >large current required to light the interior lights, or
> the current
> > >from the alternator to flow through the windings in the dash
> > Ammeter,
> > >you typically end up with a fried Ammeter that either barely
> > works or
> > >doesn't work at all.
> > >
> > >When I replaced the harness in my 65 with a new one, I
> also replaced
> > >the long ago burned up Ammeter in the dash. Now When starting the
> > >engine I can get swing into the "charge" zone that goes up
> > to the half
> > >way mark. I can also get max swing to the charge side on
> those times
> > >when I haven't run the car in over a month and have to crank
> > a while to
> > >re-fill the float bowls. I'm currently running the original 65 amp
> > >alternator and the indications I've described above are
> > typical for a
> > >stock setup.
> > >
> > >BTW: With the engine off and just opening the doors, the courtesy
> > >lights under the dash and in the console should show a
> > noticeable swing
> > >toward discharge on the Ammeter. Turning on the head lights should
> > >swing it even further into the discharge zone. I get a swing
> > of about
> > >2/3 between the center and the halfway mark on the discharge
> > side when
> > >my interior lights and head lights (GE Halogen types) are
> on and the
> > >engine is off.
> > >
> > >Michael J. Kupec
> > >-------------------------------------------
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Never get a busy signal because you are always connected
> > with high-speed
> > Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers.
> > https://broadband.msn.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Classic-mustangs mailing list (email redacted)
> > lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list (email redacted)
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list (email redacted)
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>