Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: Joe.Baker (Joe Baker)

Okay, time for another provocative newbie question!! I'm still a year or so from painting my beloved '66 coupe, but I'm starting to think through the process (there are other things I want to do in conjunction; for example, I want to pop the front & back glass for the sake of painting, new seals, AND headliner installation). But I don't think I know enough about the pros and cons of the single-stage vs. base coat/clear coat. Oh, I understand the difference in processes; I just don't know which would be better for me.

The car in question is (and will remain) a daily driver, but I try to keep it looking as original as is practical, inside and out. The paint color is (and will remain) Emberglow Metallic; will the two-stage paint look substantially different? Which type of paint wears better (I live in Tennessee, so I have mild to hot summers)? Which touches up better, should the need arise? Should I expect a substantial cost difference? If so, which should be cheaper?

What say ye?

--------------------------
Joe Baker
'66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg

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Mail From: RRobaldo (Lance Robaldo)

In my opinion, If you want it to look good for a long time, there's no option
besides Basecoat/Clearcoat.

That's what I just had done to my car over the past two months and got out of
the shop just 2 weeks ago. (see pictures @ robaldo.com/ProjectSpirit
for details)

Think of it this way, ALL paint oxidizes & gets small scratches. With BC/CC
you have the clear PROTECTING the paint, so the clear takes the weather and
abuse leaving the basecoat paint unharmed. And small scratches in the clear
easily polish out leaving the basecoat untouched. Often touchup isn't even
needed, just a dab of rubbing compound and some elbow grease.

With a single stage, any damage to the paint really is damaging the paint. And
polishing it out risks polishing THROUGH the paint much easier.

A two-stage paint won't look substantially different, but it will look better
longer.

Single stage paint generally touches up EASIER, but not necessarily BETTER. If
you take your time a bc/cc touchup can be done practically unnoticeable.

A proper touchup on a bc/cc involves two applications of paint. One for the
base color and another clear over it, just like the paint underneath the
touchup.

Since you have a metallic, no touchup will be perfect with SS or BC/CC because
the metallic particles in the paint won't lay down the exact same way they did
when they were sprayed on.

And yes, generally Single Stage is much cheaper. It's what most of the Econo
paints, Earl Sheibs and Maacos of the world use on their low end paint jobs.




-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Joe Baker
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:49 PM
To: RRobaldo at wltsoftware.com
Subject: [CM] Newbie question: single stage, or BC/CC ??

Okay, time for another provocative newbie question!! I'm still a year or so
from painting my beloved '66 coupe, but I'm starting to think through the
process (there are other things I want to do in conjunction; for example, I want
to pop the front & back glass for the sake of painting, new seals, AND headliner
installation). But I don't think I know enough about the pros and cons of the
single-stage vs. base coat/clear coat. Oh, I understand the difference in
processes; I just don't know which would be better for me.

The car in question is (and will remain) a daily driver, but I try to keep it
looking as original as is practical, inside and out. The paint color is (and
will remain) Emberglow Metallic; will the two-stage paint look substantially
different? Which type of paint wears better (I live in Tennessee, so I have
mild to hot summers)? Which touches up better, should the need arise? Should I
expect a substantial cost difference? If so, which should be cheaper?

What say ye?

--------------------------
Joe Baker
'66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg

_______________________________________________
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Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Linc (Linc)

Well I am sure you will get a lot of comments on both sides of this
issue. But for me I can say that you have to address what you want
first. If you want a great looking job that will last that is one thing.
But if you want a factory appearing paint job that will be an entirely
different direction.

I think everyone knows that cars get painted and that the quality of
paint today can be so much more superior then previously was available. So
trying to match the sheen and texture doesn't really make a lot of sense
anymore.

Having said that, I think instead of offering a style I will go right out
and offer a product. Once upon a time I was running a body shop when we had
to do a major paint change to a new product. We tested all the leading
brands
at the time, with basecoat/clear being or primary focus. After all the test
were completed we found that Sikkens was the hands down winner and the
only choice for years to come. There was (at that time) no paint that could
match it in durability, flexibility, ease of use, and color match ability.

I painted my 67 Mustang in 1994 with Sikkens and have never sanded or rubbed
the original job as it came out of the both. Smooth as glass and still
shines
like it did the first day. There are a few scratches here and there, but
overall
it has lasted better then the Imron paint job that was done the year before
on
my Capri. The Capri was garage kept for several years and the Mustang was
outside
daily all except the last three years.

I had to repaint a door on the capri about 1997 or so, and it still looks
twice
as nice as the Imron paint job. So for me there just isn't any other choice.
I
would guess your asking why I used Imron then. Well, you have to try new
things
from time to time to know your still using the best product and that is what
I
did.

Hope this helps, I am certain someone will not agree. But that is ok.

Linc

-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Joe
Baker
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:49 PM
To: Linc at quicklinc.com
Subject: [CM] Newbie question: single stage, or BC/CC ??

Okay, time for another provocative newbie question!! I'm still a year or so
from painting my beloved '66 coupe, but I'm starting to think through the
process (there are other things I want to do in conjunction; for example, I
want to pop the front & back glass for the sake of painting, new seals, AND
headliner installation). But I don't think I know enough about the pros and
cons of the single-stage vs. base coat/clear coat. Oh, I understand the
difference in processes; I just don't know which would be better for me.

The car in question is (and will remain) a daily driver, but I try to keep
it looking as original as is practical, inside and out. The paint color is
(and will remain) Emberglow Metallic; will the two-stage paint look
substantially different? Which type of paint wears better (I live in
Tennessee, so I have mild to hot summers)? Which touches up better, should
the need arise? Should I expect a substantial cost difference? If so,
which should be cheaper?

What say ye?

--------------------------
Joe Baker
'66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg

_______________________________________________
Classic-mustangs mailing list
Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: tthorsen70 (Terry Thorsen)

> And yes, generally Single Stage is much cheaper. It's what most of the
> Econo
> paints, Earl Sheibs and Maacos of the world use on their low end paint
> jobs.

Speaking of Earl Shieb, I had a car I got painted there once. They asked
how much I had and I said $500. Boy did I get what I paid for. They didn't
bother to open the doors and spray the door jambs. They even painted right
over the pin stripes. That was the worst $500 I ever spent and a lesson
well learned about paint jobs. I would rather save up enough for a really
good paint job.

Terry

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mustang (Brandon Peskin)


On Sep 7, 2006, at 6:33 PM, Terry Thorsen wrote:

> I would rather save up enough for a really
> good paint job.

I had a similar experience with Maaco. It was their ``deluxe'' paint
job too...``factory finish'' they said. What a horrible paint job.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Lance (Lance Robaldo)

In Maaco's defense.

All Maaco's are independently owned and operated. There are good ones, and
then there are some that make a can of rustoleum spray paint look good.

The work done on my car was done by one of the good ones. But it wasn't
cheap!

They spent over 2 months working on the car and did a very good job. It's
very close to being a show-quality job.

Their work speaks for itself. I've posted the link several times lately:
Robaldo.com/ProjectSpirit .

You CAN get a good job from Maaco, but be sure you're going to one that's
actually interested in putting out quality work. But that goes without
saying. You should thoroughly check out ANY shop that's you're considering
painting your car.

Lance.
Lance at Robaldo.com



-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Brandon
Peskin
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 9:44 PM
To: Lance at robaldo.com
Subject: Re: [CM] Newbie question: single stage, or BC/CC ??


On Sep 7, 2006, at 6:33 PM, Terry Thorsen wrote:

> I would rather save up enough for a really
> good paint job.

I had a similar experience with Maaco. It was their ``deluxe'' paint
job too...``factory finish'' they said. What a horrible paint job.
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Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: W427 (David)

I am not a paint expert even though I used to do a lot of the dirty work
years ago - it's all different now. Although I do agree that most
metallics should be done in a 2-stage BC/CC system for reasons
mentioned, single-stage non-metallics can be top-of-the-line. I am in
an unrelated club that has a UPS-type box van 'support truck' and we
roped PPG to sponsor the paint. They donated a single-stage urethane in
screaming yellow (our choice) without any other supplies.

To this day it has color depth and gloss like the day it was sprayed and
that was (drum roll) 11 years ago. Just the paint (no reducers,
hardener, etc.) was claimed at over $300 a gallon in 1994! Yes, and it
is stored outside in the south Florida sun year around along with about
4 hurricane strikes, is rarely washed and never waxed. Ever. It is
simply the most amazing finish I have ever seen applied to a vehicle for
durability. When I see it I just shake my head in disbelief...

David

>> And yes, generally Single Stage is much cheaper. It's what most of the
>> Econo
>> paints, Earl Sheibs and Maacos of the world use on their low end paint
>> jobs.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Linc (Linc)

Back when I ran that body shop I talked about, but before we switched
to the Sikkens paint. People would baulk at our price for a complete
paint job. We would charge 40 hours prep, 40 hours paint, and $250 for
materials. Back then the labor rate was only $24 hour so the price
was pretty reasonable. But people always said we were to high. So we
offered the 'No Warranty Special' for people who wanted to save some
money. Basically we still charged 40 hour prep. But we lowered the
paint to 5 hours (tow truck driver taking the car over and back) and
materials was lowered to $150 (macco complete paint for prepped car
back then was $135)

We did a fair amount of these vehicles and only ever had one person
come back and say they were unhappy. We explained, no warranty was
because we cannot verify what the painter at the other place would
do, or how.

Overall these paint jobs were good jobs because all the prep was done
correctly. And as long as Macco didn't use one of the 'new guys' to
shoot the paint it would look good and last at least five years which
back then was about all you could hope for with the paint of the times.

Linc

-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Brandon
Peskin
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 9:44 PM
To: Linc at quicklinc.com
Subject: Re: [CM] Newbie question: single stage, or BC/CC ??


On Sep 7, 2006, at 6:33 PM, Terry Thorsen wrote:

> I would rather save up enough for a really good paint job.

I had a similar experience with Maaco. It was their ``deluxe'' paint job
too...``factory finish'' they said. What a horrible paint job.
_______________________________________________
Classic-mustangs mailing list
Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/