Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: mastros (MICHAEL MASTROIANNI)

I've poked around the internet for info on H vs. X.

>From what I gather...H is better for low end torque & sounds like more of a low rumble and X is better for horsepower & sounds raspier.

Some guys say that it also matters what type of muffler is inline...flow through or chambered when choosing between H or X. But I'd like to hear what vintage SBF Mustang owners have to say about their experiences with these crossovers.

My motor is a mild rebuild with a 4 barrel 600 & dual plane high-rise intake. I have 2 1/2" Magnaflow mufflers & plan on buying Thorley Tri-y's next week. I know that Magnaflow actually sells a 2.5" "kit" for vintage Mustangs with an X-pipe. I figured they did a little research before offering this kit, so I was leaning towards an X-pipe.

What do you think?

Thanks in advance,
Mike
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Mail From: mustang (Brandon Peskin)


On Jan 10, 2007, at 4:13 AM, MICHAEL MASTROIANNI wrote:

> My motor is a mild rebuild with a 4 barrel 600 & dual plane high-
> rise intake. I have 2 1/2" Magnaflow mufflers & plan on buying
> Thorley Tri-y's next week. I know that Magnaflow actually sells a
> 2.5" "kit" for vintage Mustangs with an X-pipe. I figured they did
> a little research before offering this kit, so I was leaning
> towards an X-pipe.
>
> What do you think?


I've got that magnaflow kit with the X pipe and it doesn't really
sound raspy. I've got patriot tri-Y's up front and a fairly stock
289. I'll see if I can record what it sounds like for you ASAP.

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)

In my mind (without much experience in exhaust tuning, but a lot of reading), the x pipe would simply be less restrictive than the H pipe. In an H-pipe, the air has to go through two 90 degree angles. While not very restrictive, it's enough restriction to limit the pulse evening effect, which is the point of the h-pipe (averaging high pressure pulses so they encounter less restriction at the muffler and less backpressure to the engine). It's also restrictive enough to cause a slight loss in high frequency sound transmission since the sound from one side would tend to bounce around and not make it to the other side quite as easily, but mufflers would have a major effect on this.



Any H pipe would be more restrictive than an x pipe would be. X pipes are more expensive since they're more expertise involved in welding them up, but in my mind, they do the same function, but the x pipe would do it better since it's got smaller angles that the airflow would have to follow to even the pressure pulses.



I think where you put the crossovers (whether they by x or h) is probably more important than which one you might choose. I've heard that about 14" behind the headers is good, but of course there's no real way to find the optimal solution besides tuning, and that would take a lot of time and money. I do know that most drag racers seem to find out that open headers aren't best for power, and a 12-18" pipe on the header usually decreases ? mile times slightly. This may have something to do with that.



I don't have experience with actually trying an x pipe (I've got an h-pipe), but it would seem to be the way to go if you want the best unless your exhaust guy can merge the pipes (effectively making an x-pipe with zero length).



Keven

________________________________

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of MICHAEL MASTROIANNI
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:14 AM
To: Coates, Keven
Subject: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?



I've poked around the internet for info on H vs. X.



>From what I gather...H is better for low end torque & sounds like more of a low rumble and X is better for horsepower & sounds raspier.



Some guys say that it also matters what type of muffler is inline...flow through or chambered when choosing between H or X. But I'd like to hear what vintage SBF Mustang owners have to say about their experiences with these crossovers.



My motor is a mild rebuild with a 4 barrel 600 & dual plane high-rise intake. I have 2 1/2" Magnaflow mufflers & plan on buying Thorley Tri-y's next week. I know that Magnaflow actually sells a 2.5" "kit" for vintage Mustangs with an X-pipe. I figured they did a little research before offering this kit, so I was leaning towards an X-pipe.



What do you think?



Thanks in advance,

Mike

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Mail From: chrisstephens (Chris Stephens)

I can't compare x to h because mine didn't have either before I went to x. I can say that my custom made x pipe dosn't sound raspy at all. It has a deep rumble just over idle then smooths and quiets up around 3g. I have 2 1/8 pipes with the x just after the transmission oil pan, Dynomax muffs and they dump right over the rear axel.

Chris


----- Original Message -----
From: Coates, Keven
To: chrisstephens at charter.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?


In my mind (without much experience in exhaust tuning, but a lot of reading), the x pipe would simply be less restrictive than the H pipe. In an H-pipe, the air has to go through two 90 degree angles. While not very restrictive, it's enough restriction to limit the pulse evening effect, which is the point of the h-pipe (averaging high pressure pulses so they encounter less restriction at the muffler and less backpressure to the engine). It's also restrictive enough to cause a slight loss in high frequency sound transmission since the sound from one side would tend to bounce around and not make it to the other side quite as easily, but mufflers would have a major effect on this.



Any H pipe would be more restrictive than an x pipe would be. X pipes are more expensive since they're more expertise involved in welding them up, but in my mind, they do the same function, but the x pipe would do it better since it's got smaller angles that the airflow would have to follow to even the pressure pulses.



I think where you put the crossovers (whether they by x or h) is probably more important than which one you might choose. I've heard that about 14" behind the headers is good, but of course there's no real way to find the optimal solution besides tuning, and that would take a lot of time and money. I do know that most drag racers seem to find out that open headers aren't best for power, and a 12-18" pipe on the header usually decreases ? mile times slightly. This may have something to do with that.



I don't have experience with actually trying an x pipe (I've got an h-pipe), but it would seem to be the way to go if you want the best unless your exhaust guy can merge the pipes (effectively making an x-pipe with zero length).



Keven


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of MICHAEL MASTROIANNI
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:14 AM
To: Coates, Keven
Subject: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?



I've poked around the internet for info on H vs. X.



From what I gather...H is better for low end torque & sounds like more of a low rumble and X is better for horsepower & sounds raspier.



Some guys say that it also matters what type of muffler is inline...flow through or chambered when choosing between H or X. But I'd like to hear what vintage SBF Mustang owners have to say about their experiences with these crossovers.



My motor is a mild rebuild with a 4 barrel 600 & dual plane high-rise intake. I have 2 1/2" Magnaflow mufflers & plan on buying Thorley Tri-y's next week. I know that Magnaflow actually sells a 2.5" "kit" for vintage Mustangs with an X-pipe. I figured they did a little research before offering this kit, so I was leaning towards an X-pipe.



What do you think?



Thanks in advance,

Mike



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

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Mail From: mustangmail (mustangmail

I have the Magna Flow 2.5" X pipe exhaust system with Tri-Y headers. My near stock 289 Fastback has a great whumpidy whump sound and great performance down the track. However, the install took more time and labor than the advertisement mentioned.


---- Chris Stephens <chrisstephens at charter.net> wrote:
> I can't compare x to h because mine didn't have either before I went to x. I can say that my custom made x pipe dosn't sound raspy at all. It has a deep rumble just over idle then smooths and quiets up around 3g. I have 2 1/8 pipes with the x just after the transmission oil pan, Dynomax muffs and they dump right over the rear axel.
>
> Chris
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Coates, Keven
> To: chrisstephens at charter.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?
>
>
> In my mind (without much experience in exhaust tuning, but a lot of reading), the x pipe would simply be less restrictive than the H pipe. In an H-pipe, the air has to go through two 90 degree angles. While not very restrictive, it's enough restriction to limit the pulse evening effect, which is the point of the h-pipe (averaging high pressure pulses so they encounter less restriction at the muffler and less backpressure to the engine). It's also restrictive enough to cause a slight loss in high frequency sound transmission since the sound from one side would tend to bounce around and not make it to the other side quite as easily, but mufflers would have a major effect on this.
>
>
>
> Any H pipe would be more restrictive than an x pipe would be. X pipes are more expensive since they're more expertise involved in welding them up, but in my mind, they do the same function, but the x pipe would do it better since it's got smaller angles that the airflow would have to follow to even the pressure pulses.
>
>
>
> I think where you put the crossovers (whether they by x or h) is probably more important than which one you might choose. I've heard that about 14" behind the headers is good, but of course there's no real way to find the optimal solution besides tuning, and that would take a lot of time and money. I do know that most drag racers seem to find out that open headers aren't best for power, and a 12-18" pipe on the header usually decreases ? mile times slightly. This may have something to do with that.
>
>
>
> I don't have experience with actually trying an x pipe (I've got an h-pipe), but it would seem to be the way to go if you want the best unless your exhaust guy can merge the pipes (effectively making an x-pipe with zero length).
>
>
>
> Keven
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of MICHAEL MASTROIANNI
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:14 AM
> To: Coates, Keven
> Subject: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?
>
>
>
> I've poked around the internet for info on H vs. X.
>
>
>
> From what I gather...H is better for low end torque & sounds like more of a low rumble and X is better for horsepower & sounds raspier.
>
>
>
> Some guys say that it also matters what type of muffler is inline...flow through or chambered when choosing between H or X. But I'd like to hear what vintage SBF Mustang owners have to say about their experiences with these crossovers.
>
>
>
> My motor is a mild rebuild with a 4 barrel 600 & dual plane high-rise intake. I have 2 1/2" Magnaflow mufflers & plan on buying Thorley Tri-y's next week. I know that Magnaflow actually sells a 2.5" "kit" for vintage Mustangs with an X-pipe. I figured they did a little research before offering this kit, so I was leaning towards an X-pipe.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: W427 (David)

I done both - but not on the same car. I would venture that straight
separated pipes have (all else being equal) a more popping sound, the H
has more comparative rumble (similar but smoother and perhaps deeper)
and the X has a higher perceived rpm hum due to both pipes carrying all
the exhaust waves more equally and was an improvement to a irritating
cruise drone on one car that had dual pipes. I like either the H or the
X, but if you have louder mufflers, the X will tend to give more of a
growl than a Harley burble. I would use one or the other if at all
possible.

As for other traits, the H is generally much easier and cheaper. As a
simple curved pipe joiner it's a $10 part project. The X is more
difficult to install as the pipes must drop to allow it to clear the
bottom of the driveline and then rise again - the H just has a curve to
clear. The X can be cheap(er) by joining two 45? elbows at the apex and
at a slight V angle providing the clearance drop. BTW - the X can be
inserted across the existing pipes like the H, providing even greater
flow potential than either H or just X, and relatively cheaply. Might
make driveline work a bit more difficult on some installations though.

| |
| |

|_|
| |

| |
X
| |

| |
|X|
| |

David

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: ckelly (Chris Kelly)

I run H pipes on both cars. The H allows equalization between the pipes -
there's no "restriction" because it's just a balance pipe and your direct
flow is not moving back and forth. The H takes the edge off of individual
pipes. It's also easy to fab in the shop.

Here's a Car Craft article:
carcraft.com/techarticles/exhaust_system_installation/

Lots of bogosity there - the tested H pipe system is clearly restritive and
undersized for a 333 RWHP engine. 333 vs 335 with the X pipe is easily
inside the dyno error range. However, it's a good system providing the same
power as open headers. It would have been better if they had run the H in
the same config trailing the crossover or at least a 3" colletor setup from
the header to the H because that would be more typical. But that might not
sell any Magnaflow parts.

=====================================
Chris Kelly - ckelly at raceabilene.net
raceabilene.net/kelly/hotrod
Merkel, Texas
Member:
International Hot Rod Association
Abilene Performance Car Association
Falcon Club of America
=====================================

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mastros (MICHAEL MASTROIANNI)

Did you have any fitment problems with the 12" long x 4" wide X-pipe
(part#10791)?

About how far back from the header flange does your x-pipe attach?

I didn't buy the kit. I have 2 Magnaflow 11226 4"x9"x14" long 2 1/2" C/O
mufflers and I'm shopping for a crossover pipe (H or X). I'm going to have a
local shop supply pipe & install once I get the headers on.

Thanks Much,
Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <mustangmail at fuse.net>
To: "Mike M." <mastros at verizon.net>
Cc: "Chris Stephens" <chrisstephens at charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?


>I have the Magna Flow 2.5" X pipe exhaust system with Tri-Y headers. My
>near stock 289 Fastback has a great whumpidy whump sound and great
>performance down the track. However, the install took more time and labor
>than the advertisement mentioned.
>
>
> ---- Chris Stephens <chrisstephens at charter.net> wrote:
>> I can't compare x to h because mine didn't have either before I went to
>> x. I can say that my custom made x pipe dosn't sound raspy at all. It has
>> a deep rumble just over idle then smooths and quiets up around 3g. I have
>> 2 1/8 pipes with the x just after the transmission oil pan, Dynomax muffs
>> and they dump right over the rear axel.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Coates, Keven
>> To: chrisstephens at charter.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?
>>
>>
>> In my mind (without much experience in exhaust tuning, but a lot of
>> reading), the x pipe would simply be less restrictive than the H pipe.
>> In an H-pipe, the air has to go through two 90 degree angles. While not
>> very restrictive, it's enough restriction to limit the pulse evening
>> effect, which is the point of the h-pipe (averaging high pressure pulses
>> so they encounter less restriction at the muffler and less backpressure
>> to the engine). It's also restrictive enough to cause a slight loss in
>> high frequency sound transmission since the sound from one side would
>> tend to bounce around and not make it to the other side quite as easily,
>> but mufflers would have a major effect on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any H pipe would be more restrictive than an x pipe would be. X pipes
>> are more expensive since they're more expertise involved in welding them
>> up, but in my mind, they do the same function, but the x pipe would do it
>> better since it's got smaller angles that the airflow would have to
>> follow to even the pressure pulses.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think where you put the crossovers (whether they by x or h) is
>> probably more important than which one you might choose. I've heard that
>> about 14" behind the headers is good, but of course there's no real way
>> to find the optimal solution besides tuning, and that would take a lot of
>> time and money. I do know that most drag racers seem to find out that
>> open headers aren't best for power, and a 12-18" pipe on the header
>> usually decreases ? mile times slightly. This may have something to do
>> with that.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't have experience with actually trying an x pipe (I've got an
>> h-pipe), but it would seem to be the way to go if you want the best
>> unless your exhaust guy can merge the pipes (effectively making an x-pipe
>> with zero length).
>>
>>
>>
>> Keven
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
>> [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of
>> MICHAEL MASTROIANNI
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:14 AM
>> To: Coates, Keven
>> Subject: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I've poked around the internet for info on H vs. X.
>>
>>
>>
>> From what I gather...H is better for low end torque & sounds like more
>> of a low rumble and X is better for horsepower & sounds raspier.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some guys say that it also matters what type of muffler is
>> inline...flow through or chambered when choosing between H or X. But I'd
>> like to hear what vintage SBF Mustang owners have to say about their
>> experiences with these crossovers.
>>
>>
>>
>> My motor is a mild rebuild with a 4 barrel 600 & dual plane high-rise
>> intake. I have 2 1/2" Magnaflow mufflers & plan on buying Thorley Tri-y's
>> next week. I know that Magnaflow actually sells a 2.5" "kit" for vintage
>> Mustangs with an X-pipe. I figured they did a little research before
>> offering this kit, so I was leaning towards an X-pipe.
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Classic-mustangs mailing list
>> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
>> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>>
>> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mustangmail (mustangmail

The X pipe is mounted in front of the end of the transmission tail shaft.
Yes, the kit did require a few hours of time to get the fitment that I wanted.
But, now it's rock solid and everything is tucked up underneath nicely.

If your doing a retro fit... take a look at the Dr. Gas X pipe. They supply the four adaptor pieces you'll need.


---- MICHAEL MASTROIANNI <mastros at verizon.net> wrote:
> Did you have any fitment problems with the 12" long x 4" wide X-pipe
(part#10791)?

About how far back from the header flange does your x-pipe attach?

I didn't buy the kit. I have 2 Magnaflow 11226 4"x9"x14" long 2 1/2" C/O
mufflers and I'm shopping for a crossover pipe (H or X). I'm going to have a
local shop supply pipe & install once I get the headers on.

Thanks Much,
Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <mustangmail at fuse.net>
To: "Mike M." <mastros at verizon.net>
Cc: "Chris Stephens" <chrisstephens at charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?


>I have the Magna Flow 2.5" X pipe exhaust system with Tri-Y headers. My
>near stock 289 Fastback has a great whumpidy whump sound and great
>performance down the track. However, the install took more time and labor
>than the advertisement mentioned.
>
>
> ---- Chris Stephens <chrisstephens at charter.net> wrote:
>> I can't compare x to h because mine didn't have either before I went to
>> x. I can say that my custom made x pipe dosn't sound raspy at all. It has
>> a deep rumble just over idle then smooths and quiets up around 3g. I have
>> 2 1/8 pipes with the x just after the transmission oil pan, Dynomax muffs
>> and they dump right over the rear axel.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Coates, Keven
>> To: chrisstephens at charter.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?
>>
>>
>> In my mind (without much experience in exhaust tuning, but a lot of
>> reading), the x pipe would simply be less restrictive than the H pipe.
>> In an H-pipe, the air has to go through two 90 degree angles. While not
>> very restrictive, it's enough restriction to limit the pulse evening
>> effect, which is the point of the h-pipe (averaging high pressure pulses
>> so they encounter less restriction at the muffler and less backpressure
>> to the engine). It's also restrictive enough to cause a slight loss in
>> high frequency sound transmission since the sound from one side would
>> tend to bounce around and not make it to the other side quite as easily,
>> but mufflers would have a major effect on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any H pipe would be more restrictive than an x pipe would be. X pipes
>> are more expensive since they're more expertise involved in welding them
>> up, but in my mind, they do the same function, but the x pipe would do it
>> better since it's got smaller angles that the airflow would have to
>> follow to even the pressure pulses.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think where you put the crossovers (whether they by x or h) is
>> probably more important than which one you might choose. I've heard that
>> about 14" behind the headers is good, but of course there's no real way
>> to find the optimal solution besides tuning, and that would take a lot of
>> time and money. I do know that most drag racers seem to find out that
>> open headers aren't best for power, and a 12-18" pipe on the header
>> usually decreases ? mile times slightly. This may have something to do
>> with that.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't have experience with actually trying an x pipe (I've got an
>> h-pipe), but it would seem to be the way to go if you want the best
>> unless your exhaust guy can merge the pipes (effectively making an x-pipe
>> with zero length).
>>
>>
>>
>> Keven
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
>> [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of
>> MICHAEL MASTROIANNI
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:14 AM
>> To: Coates, Keven
>> Subject: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I've poked around the internet for info on H vs. X.
>>
>>
>>
>> From what I gather...H is better for low end torque & sounds like more
>> of a low rumble and X is better for horsepower & sounds raspier.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some guys say that it also matters what type of muffler is
>> inline...flow through or chambered when choosing between H or X. But I'd
>> like to hear what vintage SBF Mustang owners have to say about their
>> experiences with these crossovers.
>>
>>
>>
>> My motor is a mild rebuild with a 4 barrel 600 & dual plane high-rise
>> intake. I have 2 1/2" Magnaflow mufflers & plan on buying Thorley Tri-y's
>> next week. I know that Magnaflow actually sells a 2.5" "kit" for vintage
>> Mustangs with an X-pipe. I figured they did a little research before
>> offering this kit, so I was leaning towards an X-pipe.
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Classic-mustangs mailing list
>> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
>> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>>
>> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>

_______________________________________________
Classic-mustangs mailing list
Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/

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Mail From: jmanley (Jay Manley)

I have had both on my car -- H and X -- and from chassis dyno data, I can say that I made significantly (12%) more power with the X pipe over the H pipe, though I did have to re-do the middle of the exhaust system. Also, both tests were done open-header (thru dumps before the mufflers).

I also have had numerous remarks at the drag strip on how much better my car sounds than most going thru the X before the dumps. It really sounds GOOD!!!

Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: Coates, Keven
To: JMANLEY at cableone.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?


In my mind (without much experience in exhaust tuning, but a lot of reading), the x pipe would simply be less restrictive than the H pipe. In an H-pipe, the air has to go through two 90 degree angles. While not very restrictive, it's enough restriction to limit the pulse evening effect, which is the point of the h-pipe (averaging high pressure pulses so they encounter less restriction at the muffler and less backpressure to the engine). It's also restrictive enough to cause a slight loss in high frequency sound transmission since the sound from one side would tend to bounce around and not make it to the other side quite as easily, but mufflers would have a major effect on this.



Any H pipe would be more restrictive than an x pipe would be. X pipes are more expensive since they're more expertise involved in welding them up, but in my mind, they do the same function, but the x pipe would do it better since it's got smaller angles that the airflow would have to follow to even the pressure pulses.



I think where you put the crossovers (whether they by x or h) is probably more important than which one you might choose. I've heard that about 14" behind the headers is good, but of course there's no real way to find the optimal solution besides tuning, and that would take a lot of time and money. I do know that most drag racers seem to find out that open headers aren't best for power, and a 12-18" pipe on the header usually decreases ? mile times slightly. This may have something to do with that.



I don't have experience with actually trying an x pipe (I've got an h-pipe), but it would seem to be the way to go if you want the best unless your exhaust guy can merge the pipes (effectively making an x-pipe with zero length).



Keven


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of MICHAEL MASTROIANNI
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:14 AM
To: Coates, Keven
Subject: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?



I've poked around the internet for info on H vs. X.



From what I gather...H is better for low end torque & sounds like more of a low rumble and X is better for horsepower & sounds raspier.



Some guys say that it also matters what type of muffler is inline...flow through or chambered when choosing between H or X. But I'd like to hear what vintage SBF Mustang owners have to say about their experiences with these crossovers.



My motor is a mild rebuild with a 4 barrel 600 & dual plane high-rise intake. I have 2 1/2" Magnaflow mufflers & plan on buying Thorley Tri-y's next week. I know that Magnaflow actually sells a 2.5" "kit" for vintage Mustangs with an X-pipe. I figured they did a little research before offering this kit, so I was leaning towards an X-pipe.



What do you think?



Thanks in advance,

Mike



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Mail From: keven (Coates, Keven)

That's good to know Jay.



Exhaust tuning is such a black art, except probably among a few gurus at
the OEMs who know what they're doing, but won't tell.



I've heard only a few rules about what's good and what's not, and no
rules that always work on everyone's car.



I've always thought a giant single pipe would work best, but then it's
hard to get good mufflers since it would have to be one single big
muffler.



Someone recently remarked to me the best muffler of all, a turbo!



Keven

________________________________

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Jay
Manley
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:17 AM
To: Coates, Keven
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?



I have had both on my car -- H and X -- and from chassis dyno data, I
can say that I made significantly (12%) more power with the X pipe over
the H pipe, though I did have to re-do the middle of the exhaust system.
Also, both tests were done open-header (thru dumps before the mufflers).



I also have had numerous remarks at the drag strip on how much better my
car sounds than most going thru the X before the dumps. It really
sounds GOOD!!!



Jay

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Mail From: jmanley (Jay Manley)

I agree with the "black arts". For those that might want to look at mine, see the link below.

I should mention that my X doesn't "dip" lower than anything else, it crosses just behind the front u-joint on the driveshaft and then dumps just in front of the rear tires about 6-8". Everything is a VERY tight fit.

myweb.cableone.net/jmanley/mustang.htm

myweb.cableone.net/jmanley/mustang_exhaust.htm

Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: Coates, Keven
To: JMANLEY at cableone.net
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?


That's good to know Jay.



Exhaust tuning is such a black art, except probably among a few gurus at the OEMs who know what they're doing, but won't tell.



I've heard only a few rules about what's good and what's not, and no rules that always work on everyone's car.



I've always thought a giant single pipe would work best, but then it's hard to get good mufflers since it would have to be one single big muffler.



Someone recently remarked to me the best muffler of all, a turbo!



Keven


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Jay Manley
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:17 AM
To: Coates, Keven
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?



I have had both on my car -- H and X -- and from chassis dyno data, I can say that I made significantly (12%) more power with the X pipe over the H pipe, though I did have to re-do the middle of the exhaust system. Also, both tests were done open-header (thru dumps before the mufflers).



I also have had numerous remarks at the drag strip on how much better my car sounds than most going thru the X before the dumps. It really sounds GOOD!!!



Jay



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Mail From: mastros (MICHAEL MASTROIANNI)

Thanks a lot for those pictures!

That's a real nice Mustang you have there.

I went ahead and ordered the new version of the 2.5" Magnaflow Tru-X crossover pipe (10781) $66.56 to my door from Performance Peddler.

BTW, if anyone is thinking about the 2 1/2" Magnaflow exhaust kit 15815 or 15816, they have them for under $350 shipped (discount code EBAYROCKS). That's a lot less than the usual Mustang parts suppliers.

I probably would have bought the whole kit myself, if I didn't already purchase mufflers.

Same old story...right after you've bought something, you'll see it cheaper next week.

Oh well,
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Manley
To: Mike M.
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?


I agree with the "black arts". For those that might want to look at mine, see the link below.

I should mention that my X doesn't "dip" lower than anything else, it crosses just behind the front u-joint on the driveshaft and then dumps just in front of the rear tires about 6-8". Everything is a VERY tight fit.

myweb.cableone.net/jmanley/mustang.htm

myweb.cableone.net/jmanley/mustang_exhaust.htm

Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: Coates, Keven
To: JMANLEY at cableone.net
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?


That's good to know Jay.



Exhaust tuning is such a black art, except probably among a few gurus at the OEMs who know what they're doing, but won't tell.



I've heard only a few rules about what's good and what's not, and no rules that always work on everyone's car.



I've always thought a giant single pipe would work best, but then it's hard to get good mufflers since it would have to be one single big muffler.



Someone recently remarked to me the best muffler of all, a turbo!



Keven


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca [mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Jay Manley
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:17 AM
To: Coates, Keven
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?



I have had both on my car -- H and X -- and from chassis dyno data, I can say that I made significantly (12%) more power with the X pipe over the H pipe, though I did have to re-do the middle of the exhaust system. Also, both tests were done open-header (thru dumps before the mufflers).



I also have had numerous remarks at the drag strip on how much better my car sounds than most going thru the X before the dumps. It really sounds GOOD!!!



Jay



----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Classic-mustangs mailing list
Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Mail From: gavinbr (brian wenyon)

Hello,

I just checked their pricing its $111.00, Performance peddlers.

How did you come up with $66.00?

However, see
magnaflowexhaustshop.ecrater.com/category.php?cid=129194


Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca]On Behalf Of MICHAEL
MASTROIANNI
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:47 AM
To: gavinbr at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?

Thanks a lot for those pictures!

That's a real nice Mustang you have there.

I went ahead and ordered the new version of the 2.5" Magnaflow Tru-X
crossover pipe (10781) $66.56 to my door from Performance Peddler.

BTW, if anyone is thinking about the 2 1/2" Magnaflow exhaust kit 15815 or
15816, they have them for under $350 shipped (discount code EBAYROCKS).
That's a lot less than the usual Mustang parts suppliers.

I probably would have bought the whole kit myself, if I didn't already
purchase mufflers.

Same old story...right after you've bought something, you'll see it cheaper
next week.

Oh well,
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Manley <mailto:jmanley at cableone.net>

To: Mike M. <mailto:mastros at verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?

I agree with the "black arts". For those that might want to look at mine,
see the link below.

I should mention that my X doesn't "dip" lower than anything else, it
crosses just behind the front u-joint on the driveshaft and then dumps just
in front of the rear tires about 6-8". Everything is a VERY tight fit.

myweb.cableone.net/jmanley/mustang.htm

myweb.cableone.net/jmanley/mustang_exhaust.htm

Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: Coates, Keven <mailto:keven at ti.com>

To: JMANLEY at cableone.net <mailto:JMANLEY at cableone.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?

That?s good to know Jay.

Exhaust tuning is such a black art, except probably among a few gurus at the
OEMs who know what they?re doing, but won?t tell.

I?ve heard only a few rules about what?s good and what?s not, and no rules
that always work on everyone?s car.

I?ve always thought a giant single pipe would work best, but then it?s hard
to get good mufflers since it would have to be one single big muffler.

Someone recently remarked to me the best muffler of all, a turbo!

Keven
_____

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Jay
Manley
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:17 AM
To: Coates, Keven
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?

I have had both on my car -- H and X -- and from chassis dyno data, I can
say that I made significantly (12%) more power with the X pipe over the H
pipe, though I did have to re-do the middle of the exhaust system. Also,
both tests were done open-header (thru dumps before the mufflers).

I also have had numerous remarks at the drag strip on how much better my car
sounds than most going thru the X before the dumps. It really sounds
GOOD!!!

Jay
_____

_______________________________________________
Classic-mustangs mailing list
Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
_____

_______________________________________________
Classic-mustangs mailing list
Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
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Mail From: mastros (MICHAEL MASTROIANNI)

It comes up $89.18 "sale price" then add 1 to cart, then enter discont code "EBAYROCKS", $66.56 free shipping.

I just tried it again myself, it works.

This should be the link for the x-pipe below:

performancepeddler.com/search_results.asp?txtFromSearch=fromSearch&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtsearchParamCat=ALL&subcat=&iLevel=1&txtCatName=&txtsearchParamTxt=10781&x=15&y=11

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: brian wenyon
To: Mike M.
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] Exhaust Question: H-pipe or X-pipe ?


Hello,



I just checked their pricing its $111.00, Performance peddlers.



How did you come up with $66.00?


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