Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: Randy Smith (email redacted)

Hi. I'm new to the list and am hoping that some of the local experts can
help me isolate the source of my steering troubles.

I have a '68 Mustang with excessive play in the power steering. After two
trips to the shop, and many parts replaced, the excessive play remains
(appx. 2". Some of the things they've tried so far include
Replace upper ball joints
Replace tie rod ends
Rebuild power steering control valve
Replace upper control arm shaft kit
Replace power steering ram
Replaced power steering hoses

Aligned the front end, twice. Springs are good (don't know about shocks).

Where should we look next?

Thanks for your help,
Randy Smith



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Mail From: Kelly Murray (email redacted)

> I have a '68 Mustang with excessive play in the power steering. After two
> trips to the shop, and many parts replaced, the excessive play remains...
> Where should we look next?

For a manual steering setup..
I believe the design has play inherent in the control valve,
the input post must move some distance before the steering moves.
I switched my '70 to manual. (btw, contrary to advice, I've just
left the pump on the car without the hoses connected, so far no problem)
Actually my wife finds it too hard to steer so I'm considering
making changes. Wasn't someone working on getting a rack-n-pinion
setup? (btw, I put one in my '72, but it created bumpsteer, no biggie
for a 90% drag car, but won't do for a daily driver)

I wonder if the steering pitman arm can be connected solidly to
the drag link, and have the control box activated in parallel
with the movement of the arm, or perhaps activated via a different
switching mechanism (heck, give me a manual button to press on the column!)
Hasn't someone solved this problem already?

-Kelly Murray (email redacted)
'70 Mach1 351W now have pics: htrd.com/kem/mach1.html

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Mail From: David J. Hammar (email redacted)

On Sat, 16 May 1998 09:21:33 -0700, "Randy Smith" <(email redacted)> wrote:
>I have a '68 Mustang with excessive play in the power steering. After two
>trips to the shop, and many parts replaced, the excessive play remains
>(appx. 2". Some of the things they've tried so far include
>Replace upper ball joints
>Replace tie rod ends
>Rebuild power steering control valve
>Replace upper control arm shaft kit
>Replace power steering ram
>Replaced power steering hoses
>Where should we look next?

To begin with, how are you measuring the "excessive play"? If it's based
on movement of the steering wheel with the engine off, 2" at the outer rim
of the wheel isn't at all unreasonable. How responsive is the system with
the engine running?

Many modern shops are utterly clueless about these older power steering
systems and expect them to behave like a modern rack & pinion -- they
don't. So they'll mistake distance it takes to move the control valve ball
stud to its limit with the power off as "excessive free play". In actual
"powered" use, any movement of the ball stud should immediately cause the
control valve to try to recenter itself (dragging the front tires along for
the ride).

Sounds like you've pretty much replaced every possible "loose" component
with the exception of the wheel bearings and/or spindles. If the problem
exists while the engine is running, the only other thing I might look for
is *extremely* low system pressure as a result of a failing p/s pump -- of
course that should be pretty obvious, as you'd also feel almost no power
assist while steering!

Lastly, while doing the p/s control valve rebuild, did you replace the ball
stud (properly)?
If the play is still (really) excessive, I'd go back and look at it again.

Hope this helps some,
-- Dave H.
hammar.dyn.ml.org/~djhamma
hammar.detour.net/~djhamma


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Mail From: Cobra0375 (email redacted)

I had a simaliar problem like that and it took a P/S Control Valve rebuild kit
to fix the problem. Or you counld go to you auto parts store and buy a life
time warrenty one and put it in. They are about $100.00. Vice the rebuild kit
for about $35.

Gary Dempsey
68 Fatsback
73 Convt.
93 SVT Cobra #375

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Mail From: David B. Hollis (email redacted)

Couple of thoughts:

Idler arm.
Steering box.
Alignment - it's not easy to find someone that can do it right. Though
that wouldn't really manifest as play, but rather wandering on the road.


At 01:30 PM 5/16/98 -0300, you wrote:
>Hi. I'm new to the list and am hoping that some of the local experts can
>help me isolate the source of my steering troubles.
>
>I have a '68 Mustang with excessive play in the power steering. After two
>trips to the shop, and many parts replaced, the excessive play remains
>(appx. 2". Some of the things they've tried so far include
>Replace upper ball joints
>Replace tie rod ends
>Rebuild power steering control valve
>Replace upper control arm shaft kit
>Replace power steering ram
>Replaced power steering hoses
>
>Aligned the front end, twice. Springs are good (don't know about shocks).
>
>Where should we look next?
>
>Thanks for your help,
>Randy Smith
>
>
>
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>All the list info you'll ever want: antler.webworks.ca/~server/cm
>
>

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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Keven D. Coates (email redacted)

> > trips to the shop, and many parts replaced, the excessive play remains...

Join the club! I have 3" play at the steering wheel!

> For a manual steering setup..

I'm sure you meant to say "power steering setup", since a manual steering setup
doesn't have a control valve.

> I believe the design has play inherent in the control valve,

Yes, some play is necessary to detect loading, contrary to what the geniouses
at Brake Check told me. Yes, their certified....certified boneheads, but
that's another story, and I don't like to complain.

> Wasn't someone working on getting a rack-n-pinion setup?

Yes, yes, yes, I am slowly, but surely working on it. Lev Levosky was working
on it with me for a while, but no he has too much other stuff to do. I have
made some really good progress since I started. I now know exactly what rack I
am looking for to minimize bumpsteer and maximize ratio, I just haven't found
it yet. I've searched through every American car, and most imports, but no
luck yet. I'm turning to the race fabricators. I have an excellent rack for a
manual, but no power yet (for a reasonable price). I still need a servo valve
(the load sensing valve for a rack system).

> (btw, I put one in my '72, but it created bumpsteer, no biggie
> for a 90% drag car, but won't do for a daily driver)

Yes, this is the problem with all the current rack systems. They couldn't find
the right rack, or didn't know what to look for, so they slapped on something
that turned the wheels and didn't worry about bumpsteer or ackerman. Then they
charge $1000 for all that "engineering" they did, and it's manual!

> I wonder if the steering pitman arm can be connected solidly to
> the drag link, and have the control box activated in parallel
> with the movement of the arm, or perhaps activated via a different
> switching mechanism (heck, give me a manual button to press on the column!)

Sorry, the design must sense load. It must be a "closed loop" where the valve
is moved by the error of the input to the output.

The best systems out there are electromechanical assist, instead of messy
hydraulics, they use a hefty electric motor with microprocessor controlled
assist. They can adjust feedback, assist, and nearly anything they want then,
but for now, we are stuck with this ancient assist.

I'll keep the list updated, but consider yourself warned, at this rate it may
be another year or more before I'm done. It will be a great setup though!

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Keven Coates
DSP Datacomm

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Mail From: Rick Pargeter (email redacted)

>Alignment - it's not easy to find someone that can do it right.

Good point. I have (recently) found that it would be smart if you took the
alignment specs with you. If they're not in their alignment computer, the
tech takes a 'best guess', and it's not always right. I took a page from
Vol5 of the shop manual when I had mine done.

Rick
72 Mach1



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