Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: Philip J. Robinson (email redacted)

I have a 66 convertible with a 6cyl 200ci with C4 auto. The car has 70K original miles, never rebuilt. Runs well, stays cool when idling and coolant flows well - due to new waterpump, but overheats at when driven. Suspect bad head gasket, possible cracked head. Car stored 12 years until now.

Well looks like I have the option of just fixing the problem or popping the engine out and having it rebuilt ($550 vs $2K estimated). I could go on just fixing the weak link or fix the entire chain (e.g., top of engine strengthened only to blow a bearing and have to repeat the labor costs of pulling). Have a shop which rebuild the original engine for $1400. My mechanic estimates around $600 to pull and put back in the engine.

My Questions:
1. Am I doing the right thing by rebuilding now?
2. What questions/concerns should I have with the rebuild shop?
3. Does anyone have recommendations for a rebuilder for this engine in New Jersey (close to Essex County is better)?

Any and all replies appreciated!

Phil


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (email redacted)


12 yrs sitting? Could be a problem with rust/gunk in the coolant
system.

1. Pressure check the system to rule out the head gasket and cracks.
If it checks out ok, you may just need a good chemical flushing to
remove deposits. You'd be surprised how much rust and glop can
accumulate in an otherwise sound cooling system.

2. Check the radiator to make sure it's flowing ok. I once had a
radiator which was fine at idle but marginal at higher speeds when the
engine was producing more heat.

3. Same with the thermostat. Check to make sure it opens completely.
The best I've found are the Robertshaw thermostats. They cost a
couple bucks more, but they flow better.

Good luck, ]

Jack




______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: [CM:6896] Engine Rebuild 66 6cyl 200ci
Author: <(email redacted)> at DDN
Date: 10/16/97 9:20 AM


I have a 66 convertible with a 6cyl 200ci with C4 auto. The car has 70K
original miles, never rebuilt. Runs well, stays cool when idling and coolant
flows well - due to new waterpump, but overheats at when driven. Suspect bad
head gasket, possible cracked head. Car stored 12 years until now.

Well looks like I have the option of just fixing the problem or popping the
engine out and having it rebuilt ($550 vs $2K estimated). I could go on just
fixing the weak link or fix the entire chain (e.g., top of engine strengthened
only to blow a bearing and have to repeat the labor costs of pulling). Have a
shop which rebuild the original engine for $1400. My mechanic estimates around
$600 to pull and put back in the engine.

My Questions:
1. Am I doing the right thing by rebuilding now?
2. What questions/concerns should I have with the rebuild shop?
3. Does anyone have recommendations for a rebuilder for this engine in New
Jersey (close to Essex County is better)?

Any and all replies appreciated!

Phil


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Jeff Christian (email redacted)

I have a '66 Coupe with the same drive train. I did make the mistake of
doing only the top half, and paid for it. In Canada, we use unleaded fuel,
so it was necessary to put in new valves anyway. In the end, I needed to
have a full rebuild done. In my case, it was not possible to judge all the
damage and wear without tearing it down. My cost for the rebuild, with new
pistons, rings, valves, bearings, ground crank, new cam, timing gears,
sleeving one piston, was 1200 Canadian (doing the R and R myself).

I did have a lot more miles than you, likely 120 or 130 thousand, so the
comparison may not be fair. These motors are considered very strong, and
you would think that 70k original miles would not need a rebuild. I'd
perhaps try replacing the head gasket, checking the compression, and making
a decision after that.

By the way, taking the motor out is very easy on these cars. I removed
mine, working alone, in about four hours, put it into a trailer, and took it
down to the rebuild shop myself. Saved a few dollars, and installed it
myself afterward. It is actually a great opportunity also to clean up the
engine compartment, maybe do a bit of detailing, etc. without the engine in
the way.

Hope this is helpful. Best of luck.

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Philip J. Robinson <(email redacted)>
To: Multiple recipients of list <(email redacted)>
Date: Thursday, October 16, 1997 5:35 AM
Subject: [CM:6896] Engine Rebuild 66 6cyl 200ci


>I have a 66 convertible with a 6cyl 200ci with C4 auto. The car has 70K
original miles, never rebuilt. Runs well, stays cool when idling and
coolant flows well - due to new waterpump, but overheats at when driven.
Suspect bad head gasket, possible cracked head. Car stored 12 years until
now.
>
>Well looks like I have the option of just fixing the problem or popping the
engine out and having it rebuilt ($550 vs $2K estimated). I could go on
just fixing the weak link or fix the entire chain (e.g., top of engine
strengthened only to blow a bearing and have to repeat the labor costs of
pulling). Have a shop which rebuild the original engine for $1400. My
mechanic estimates around $600 to pull and put back in the engine.
>
>My Questions:
>1. Am I doing the right thing by rebuilding now?
>2. What questions/concerns should I have with the rebuild shop?
>3. Does anyone have recommendations for a rebuilder for this engine in New
Jersey (close to Essex County is better)?
>
>Any and all replies appreciated!
>
>Phil
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>For information on Subscribing and Unsubscribing as well as a list
>archive please visit:
>
> antler.webworks.ca/cm
>


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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Philip J. Robinson (email redacted)

My original intention was to use a mechanic to get the car in good running condition and maintain it myself after. It was my mechanic who suspects the blown gasket or cracked head. He impresses me as a solid, knowledgeable professional, but he is not a specialist in restorals, never mind Mustang specific.

A new thermostat and water pump put in car couple of days ago and system flushed, to get the cooling system to work well enough to drive the car,. An oil change and tuneup (plugs, points, wires, distributor cap).

Radiator is not original, either recently replaced (2 monthes?) or right before storage 12 years ago (trying to find out), but I agree... several people advised flow testing the radiator.

One additional symptom I didn't mention is the heater core started leaking at the same time this problem started, don't think it's related though...

No white smoke, only coolant loss appears to be the overheating blowing pressure through the radiator cap. No water in oil seen. Mechanic mentioned he saw bubbles in coolant.

Another interesting thing was the dip stick showed the oil way over the full line originally. Do you know the correct length for the 66 200ci, I want to be sure the dipstick is correct, and the car is not now oil starved. (I didn't do the oil change and don't know how many quarts he put in).

Shopping the rebuild around... found prices ranging $1000 to $1400 without the R&R. One significant factor is the warranty, as you mentioned. Top end guy appears to be a restorer oriented engine shop (Trident Motors... anyone have experience?), 3yr.36 month warranty, uses all OEM parts, uses shop manuals to keep originality if he R&Rs (+$600), will detail engine compartment for an additional $600 (degrease, sandblast, paint). He made special mention that he bakes the block after boiling to remove block stress before honing.

A top NJ mustang restorer (Ed) advises checking if the guy knows Mustangs well enough to know which parts stay natural vs. paint, semi gloss black for compartment vs gloss or flat, etc.


-----Reply to Original Message via e-mail edited -----
From: Ray F
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 5:23 PM
To: Philip J. Robinson
Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild 66 6cyl 200ci

Phil,

I've had problems with overheating, too. I used Prestone Super
(heavy-duty) Flush(the one you put in the coolant for 3-6 hours)to clear
out my system, and now it works fine at any speed. If your cooling system
still has trouble, you might want to get your radiator rodded out. That
will only cost you about $40.00. 12 years is a long time for the car to
sit around--I'll bet your cooling system just has lots of dirt and junk in it.

It doesn't sound like you have a bad engine. Why do you suspect a blown
head gasket or cylinder head crack? Do you have coolant loss, water in
your oil, or oil in your coolant? Does your coolant get pushed out the
overflow tank by air induction? Perform a compression check on all your
cylinders. If the compression is uniform across all the cylinders, there's
probably nothing wrong. If there is low compression in two adjacent
cylinders, it's most likely the gasket. If there is low compression in
only one cylinder, it's probably a crack.
A low compression could also mean leaky piston rings. You can check this
my pouring about a tablespoon of heavy oil into the combustion chamber.
The oil will seal the piston ring long enough for a compression check. If
the compression is restored, you might be able to fix the problem with a
checmical restorer. Otherwise you'll have to get the piston rings replaced.

The rebuild price sound high. I have priced a brand spanking new engine
for my 289 at $1500, $500 installation, and a 3 year warranty. Rebuilding
an existing 200 at $2k sounds high to me, so you might want to shop around
some more. As long as your oil has been circulating and protecting your
bearings, you shouldn't have to rebuild yet. If your cylinder head is
cracked, it should only cost about $350 to $400 to replace it--less if it's
just the gasket.
When shopping around for a rebuilder, ask about their warranty. Some
stand behind their work for as long as 7 years, while some as short as 6
months, so consider that in your cost.

I hope this is not overwhelming you, but I've looked into all the
possibilites for my own '65 289. Please write again if you have any
questions.





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