Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: Joe.Baker (Joe Baker)

Anybody done this? I'm trying to replace the master cylinder on my
'66 coupe with a dual reservoir (I got the CJPony kit someone here
recommended), but the old brake lines are REALLY frozen on the
distribution block. I spent a couple of hours trying to free them
up today. I've been hitting all the connections with PB every few
days for almost a month, but they were still frozen. I hit 'em with
a propane torch for about 10 minutes -- still frozen. Unless
someone has another idea, I'm planning to get a dremel tool and cut
the lines; but what to about the filings that are certain to get
into the brake lines? I assume there is a way to flush the lines,
and I might even muddle my way through it, but I'd appreciate any
suggestions from anyone who's done this. It seems like it'd be best
to flush FROM the wheels TOWARD the MC. Any thoughts about that?

Thanks to anyone who has any suggestions.
________________________________
Joe Baker
'66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg
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Mail From: mustang (Bryan Fuller)

Good pair of vice grips will remove any stubborn brake line nut. Soaking
with penetrating oil is a good start, give it a little heat (doesn't take
much) with the torch and it will crack right loose.

Why would you cut the line? To leave the stuck end in place and just
re-flare it? Not really a good idea, but if you insist on it don't use a
dremel or any other abrasive cutter. Not only will it leave filings just
like you said, but it's nearly impossible to cut it off perfectly square
which it will have to be to reflare it (nor will it bevel the edge like you
need). Use a small tubing cutter which you can get at any auto parts store;
it's cheaper, smaller and will cut it right. Then use a double flare tool
(not a regular one) and you can put a new nut on, just be sure you slide the
nut on first before flaring...


---
Bryan Fuller
bryan at themustangshop.com
(253) 218-0323
(253) 218-0324 fax
www.themustangshop.com


-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Joe
Baker
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 9:00 PM
To: MUSTANG at wabba.net
Subject: [CM] Cutting brake lines & fitting new flare nuts

Anybody done this? I'm trying to replace the master cylinder on my
'66 coupe with a dual reservoir (I got the CJPony kit someone here
recommended), but the old brake lines are REALLY frozen on the distribution
block. I spent a couple of hours trying to free them up today. I've been
hitting all the connections with PB every few days for almost a month, but
they were still frozen. I hit 'em with a propane torch for about 10 minutes
-- still frozen. Unless someone has another idea, I'm planning to get a
dremel tool and cut the lines; but what to about the filings that are
certain to get into the brake lines? I assume there is a way to flush the
lines, and I might even muddle my way through it, but I'd appreciate any
suggestions from anyone who's done this. It seems like it'd be best to
flush FROM the wheels TOWARD the MC. Any thoughts about that?

Thanks to anyone who has any suggestions.
________________________________
Joe Baker
'66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg

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Mail From: tcob32256 (john ljh)

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Mail From: ckelly (Chris Kelly)

This months Car Craft (Jan 2007 - yes it's on the racks) has a good article
on brake line flaring.


=====================================
Chris Kelly - ckelly at raceabilene.com
raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod
Merkel, Texas
Member:
International Hot Rod Association
Abilene Performance Car Association
Falcon Club of America
=====================================






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Mail From: KalliPa1 (KalliPa1

Once you get the new master cylinder in, the proportioning valve, and
the brake lines you should flush from the master cylinder back to the wheel
cylinders. It would be a mistake to put all that old brake fluid into a new
master cylinder and get any crude or gook in it. Besides....I do not know how
you would flush backwards....? I do not think there is a way to do it.
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Mail From: jmanley (Jay Manley)

I would STRONGLY suggest that you just replace the lines and distribution
block. I did the same as you and fought leaks for a couple of weeks before
I gave in and just replaced the lines. Best money, in hindsight, that I
ever spent on my brakes other than my hydroboost setup.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Baker" <Joe.Baker at twsg.com>
To: <JMANLEY at cableone.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:00 PM
Subject: [CM] Cutting brake lines & fitting new flare nuts


Anybody done this? I'm trying to replace the master cylinder on my
'66 coupe with a dual reservoir (I got the CJPony kit someone here
recommended), but the old brake lines are REALLY frozen on the
distribution block. I spent a couple of hours trying to free them
up today. I've been hitting all the connections with PB every few
days for almost a month, but they were still frozen. I hit 'em with
a propane torch for about 10 minutes -- still frozen. Unless
someone has another idea, I'm planning to get a dremel tool and cut
the lines; but what to about the filings that are certain to get
into the brake lines? I assume there is a way to flush the lines,
and I might even muddle my way through it, but I'd appreciate any
suggestions from anyone who's done this. It seems like it'd be best
to flush FROM the wheels TOWARD the MC. Any thoughts about that?

Thanks to anyone who has any suggestions.
________________________________
Joe Baker
'66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: Joe.Baker (Joe Baker)

Several folks suggested:
>> I would STRONGLY suggest that you just replace the lines and distribution
>> block.

When you order the brake lines out of a catalog, are they pre-bent? the
front-back and rear-axle lines both look like they'd be too long to send
via any normal mail; do they come in more than one piece? And how difficult
IS it to get them put in, once they arrive? I'm definitely considering this
alternative.

But I haven't given up on fixing the lines I've got! I'm pretty sure that's
going to mean cutting brake lines and replacing the distribution block.
Someone recommended vise grips; I've already rounded one of the nuts -- made
of soft brass, not steel -- with vise grips that I put on as tight as I could
get them to close. I finally cut the line from the reservoir to the block,
since that line isn't reused anyway, and tried using a bolt remover to get
the flare nut off -- STILL no good. The tight corners don't help much when
it comes to getting any leverage.

A couple of comments made it clear that I should have specified that I would
definitely replace the distribution block, as well as all rubber tubing. I
replaced the wheel cylinders several months ago.

As for cutting and flaring the brake lines, I'd use a tubing cutter to
make the final dressed cut, but I couldn't do that until the lines are free
of the distribution block. As they sit, the front brake lines are about 1/2"
apart, so there's no clearance for a tubing cutter. Also, it has occurred to
me that I could cut the relatively soft brass flare nuts instead of the tubing,
and that should prevent getting filings into the line (at that time, anyway;
read on).

I've done more than a little flaring of copper tubing, but after reading some
internet how-to's, I've learned that there are some significant differences
when cutting and flaring steel. It seems that the steel work-hardens much
worse than brass or copper. The recommendation seems to be to deburr with a
file on the outside and a drill bit on the inside to remove the work-
hardening. What none of these websites mentions is what to do about filings
from the drill-bit. One thought that has occurred to me is to use a strong
magnet on the side of the tubing to keep them close to the opening, and use
a shop vac to suction the brake fluid and/or alcohol-flush UP through the
tubing, so the filings are close to the "exit". In such a case, I'd remove
the magnet just as the suction was started, and the filings should just get
swept out into the shop vac. Any thoughts?

One final question: how does one properly dispose of old brake fluid?

As always, thanks VERY much.
--------------------------
Joe Baker
'66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: jmanley (Jay Manley)

Yes, I got mine from Inline Tube, and they were an exact match...moreover,
they have them in stainless steel for a REAL nice look. They come in one
piece with a gentle bend in the middle that you work out by laying on your
garage floor and slowly straightening. Very easy to put in, only tricky
spot is under the brake booster.

inlinetube.com/

Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Baker" <Joe.Baker at twsg.com>
To: <JMANLEY at cableone.net>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 08:51 AM
Subject: Re: [CM] Cutting brake lines & fitting new flare nuts


> Several folks suggested:
>>> I would STRONGLY suggest that you just replace the lines and
>>> distribution
>>> block.
>
> When you order the brake lines out of a catalog, are they pre-bent? the
> front-back and rear-axle lines both look like they'd be too long to send
> via any normal mail; do they come in more than one piece? And how
> difficult
> IS it to get them put in, once they arrive? I'm definitely considering
> this
> alternative.
>
> But I haven't given up on fixing the lines I've got! I'm pretty sure
> that's
> going to mean cutting brake lines and replacing the distribution block.
> Someone recommended vise grips; I've already rounded one of the nuts --
> made
> of soft brass, not steel -- with vise grips that I put on as tight as I
> could
> get them to close. I finally cut the line from the reservoir to the
> block,
> since that line isn't reused anyway, and tried using a bolt remover to get
> the flare nut off -- STILL no good. The tight corners don't help much
> when
> it comes to getting any leverage.
>
> A couple of comments made it clear that I should have specified that I
> would
> definitely replace the distribution block, as well as all rubber tubing.
> I
> replaced the wheel cylinders several months ago.
>
> As for cutting and flaring the brake lines, I'd use a tubing cutter to
> make the final dressed cut, but I couldn't do that until the lines are
> free
> of the distribution block. As they sit, the front brake lines are about
> 1/2"
> apart, so there's no clearance for a tubing cutter. Also, it has occurred
> to
> me that I could cut the relatively soft brass flare nuts instead of the
> tubing,
> and that should prevent getting filings into the line (at that time,
> anyway;
> read on).
>
> I've done more than a little flaring of copper tubing, but after reading
> some
> internet how-to's, I've learned that there are some significant
> differences
> when cutting and flaring steel. It seems that the steel work-hardens much
> worse than brass or copper. The recommendation seems to be to deburr with
> a
> file on the outside and a drill bit on the inside to remove the work-
> hardening. What none of these websites mentions is what to do about
> filings
> from the drill-bit. One thought that has occurred to me is to use a
> strong
> magnet on the side of the tubing to keep them close to the opening, and
> use
> a shop vac to suction the brake fluid and/or alcohol-flush UP through the
> tubing, so the filings are close to the "exit". In such a case, I'd
> remove
> the magnet just as the suction was started, and the filings should just
> get
> swept out into the shop vac. Any thoughts?
>
> One final question: how does one properly dispose of old brake fluid?
>
> As always, thanks VERY much.
> --------------------------
> Joe Baker
> '66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
> i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: walt (Walt Boeninger)



Joe Baker wrote:

>
> When you order the brake lines out of a catalog, are they pre-bent? the
> front-back and rear-axle lines both look like they'd be too long to send
> via any normal mail; do they come in more than one piece?

I believe they are one piece and they put a gentle bend in the
tube, and put it in a big box...


> I've done more than a little flaring of copper tubing, but after reading some
> internet how-to's, I've learned that there are some significant differences
> when cutting and flaring steel. It seems that the steel work-hardens much
> worse than brass or copper. The recommendation seems to be to deburr with a
> file on the outside and a drill bit on the inside to remove the work-
> hardening.

Never heard that. I just use the v shaped "reamer" that is part of most
cutters to "ream" the inside. Then I use a fine file to chamfer the
outer circumference to help make the double flare. It takes practice,
and works better with new Bundy tubing than 30 year old tubing.....
...especially laying on your back under the car in the winter....

> One final question: how does one properly dispose of old brake fluid?

I dump mine in with my oil to recycle..... probably not supposed to..

Walt
----

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: KalliPa1 (KalliPa1

If you put a dual master into a 1966 there are really no STOCK prebent
lines. The first dual master cylinder was in a 1967 Stang. I measured mine
out and then bought the correct length and bent mine myself using the old ones
for a pattern. Also...with a dual master you need the distribution block
which was not on a 1966 single pot.
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Mail From: d_harrelson (Dennis Harrelson)

FWIW, when I did the Granada conversion this spring, I
found that the OEM lines I had copped from the junk
yard bent and rebent more times than the new stuff
from NAPA (it took me a lot of tries to get it right).
The stuff from parts stores broke pretty easily. I
don't know if that applies to flaring, but it seems
likely. Bending long lines to fit is probably the
hardest pasrt of the job anyway.
Later,
Dennis
--- Walt Boeninger <walt at boeninger.net> wrote:
<big snip>


> It takes practice,
> and works better with new Bundy tubing than 30 year
> old tubing.....

> Walt
> ----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
>
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki!
> sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>




____________________________________________________________________________________
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: KalliPa1 (KalliPa1

I didn't have much trouble bending the lines from NAPA at all. You
just have to take it easy and not try and bend too much at a time. If you take
your time it goes easy...I did the conversion in about 2-3 hours is all.
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Mail From: mahilly (Mike H)

Curious to know what you finally did here. I'm in the same boat now with a
rounded off brake line nut at the front driver side wheel.

On 11/18/06, Joe Baker <Joe.Baker at twsg.com> wrote:
>
> Anybody done this? I'm trying to replace the master cylinder on my
> '66 coupe with a dual reservoir (I got the CJPony kit someone here
> recommended), but the old brake lines are REALLY frozen on the
> distribution block. I spent a couple of hours trying to free them
> up today. I've been hitting all the connections with PB every few
> days for almost a month, but they were still frozen. I hit 'em with
> a propane torch for about 10 minutes -- still frozen. Unless
> someone has another idea, I'm planning to get a dremel tool and cut
> the lines; but what to about the filings that are certain to get
> into the brake lines? I assume there is a way to flush the lines,
> and I might even muddle my way through it, but I'd appreciate any
> suggestions from anyone who's done this. It seems like it'd be best
> to flush FROM the wheels TOWARD the MC. Any thoughts about that?
>
> Thanks to anyone who has any suggestions.
> ________________________________
> Joe Baker
> '66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
> i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>
>
>
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Mail From: Joe.Baker (Joe Baker)

Mike, I was persuaded by several respected members of this forum to replace the
hard lines. I've run out of time to work on the car 'til probably after the first
of the year, but sometime in the next week or two I'm planning to order new brake
lines. Once I made the decision, I really feel better about it. I will then have replaced the ENTIRE hydraulic portion of my brake system.

Say, to those of you who would have an opinion on this: since I'll have no existing
fluid in the system, I can use any type of fluid I want without concern about
reactions between different types. For a daily driver ('66 coupe, drums all around)
what would you recommend, and why?

Mike, good luck on your situation.
--------------------------
Joe Baker
'66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg




Mike H said:
> Curious to know what you finally did here. I'm in the same boat now with a
> rounded off brake line nut at the front driver side wheel.

On 11/18/06, Joe Baker <Joe.Baker at twsg.com> wrote:
>>
>> ...old brake lines...trying to free them...PB every few days...
>> propane torch...still frozen...planning to get a dremel tool and cut
>> the lines...thoughts about that?

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mahilly (Mike H)

Thanks, I'm contemplating doing the same. However, I did buy myself a
propane torch, heated the rounded flare nut, and using a pair of vice grips
it broke free. Hopefully the right side will do the same when I get to that
one (I'm replacing the brake hoses along with the entire front suspension).
I'll decide on the brake lines when I start putting everything back
together.

Thanks! Mike.


On 12/13/06, Joe Baker <Joe.Baker at twsg.com> wrote:
>
> Mike, I was persuaded by several respected members of this forum to
> replace the
> hard lines. I've run out of time to work on the car 'til probably after
> the first
> of the year, but sometime in the next week or two I'm planning to order
> new brake
> lines. Once I made the decision, I really feel better about it. I will
> then have replaced the ENTIRE hydraulic portion of my brake system.
>
> Say, to those of you who would have an opinion on this: since I'll have no
> existing
> fluid in the system, I can use any type of fluid I want without concern
> about
> reactions between different types. For a daily driver ('66 coupe, drums
> all around)
> what would you recommend, and why?
>
> Mike, good luck on your situation.
> --------------------------
> Joe Baker
> '66 Emberglow Coupe -- 289/C4
> i5.tinypic.com/14wwxsj.jpg
>
>
>
>
> Mike H said:
> > Curious to know what you finally did here. I'm in the same boat now
> with a
> > rounded off brake line nut at the front driver side wheel.
>
> On 11/18/06, Joe Baker <Joe.Baker at twsg.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> ...old brake lines...trying to free them...PB every few days...
> >> propane torch...still frozen...planning to get a dremel tool and cut
> >> the lines...thoughts about that?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
> lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>
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