Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: ffacker (Fred Facker)

I measured the width of my Hi-Po fan shroud last night, and it came in right at 3" and there's only a hair between the back edge of the shroud and the pulley on my A/C compressor. Have you seen one of these fans installed, and does the shroud sit lower than stock or could it be cut out in one area? That compressor is the only accessory that gives me clearance problems.

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: air conditioning kits (Lance Robaldo)
2. Re: Seat pan and stiffness (Dennis Harrelson)
3. Re: air conditioning kits (Jeff Shanholtz)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:22:59 -0500
From: "Lance Robaldo"
Subject: Re: [CM] air conditioning kits
To: "'A list for owners of Classic Mustangs'"

Message-ID: <003101c7624e$0ee68cf0$6500a8c0 at HPzv6000Laptop>
Keywords: Subscription Mail
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

R134a CAN cool as well as R12, but not in a stock R12 system.



R134a requires a larger condenser to get the same cooling that R12 gets.

The full 134a systems come with the proper condenser for 134.

Retrofitting an existing r12 system by just sucking out all the R12 and
replacing it with 134A still uses your stock (smaller) R12 condenser so you
don't get maximum efficiency.



My son's 66 Coupe has been retrofitted to use R134, but we also changed out
the condenser to one we got from a 134a car in a junk yard and yes, it gets
so cold that it can condense moisture onto the shifter handle.



Also, for a r12 to 134a conversion you really should change out your soft
lines and seals. The 134a oil can be hard on the r12 seals and they will
fail prematurely.



As far as the alternative refrigerant I mentioned way back, I still haven't
used it in my Mustang, so I can't speak first hand on it. Several friends
swear by it though.



Lance.





_____

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Jeff
Shanholtz
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:36 PM
To: Lance at robaldo.com
Subject: Re: [CM] air conditioning kits



So that was a conversion from R12 to R134a then? I think I've heard that
R134a conversions aren't as good as systems that are R134a to begin with.
Anyone know if that's true? In other words, I wonder if buying one of these
kits as R134a right off the bat will perform better than if I had an R12
system that I converted?



_____

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Paul
Sawyer
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:11 PM
To: jeffsubs at shanholtz.com
Subject: Re: [CM] air conditioning kits

J--



I have 134a in an original AC system. ONe of my biggest mistakes. It cools
ok--if the car starts cool (stays in the shade.) If the car is hot, forget
it and roll down the windows.



Even at 80 bucks a pound, r-12 is worth it, if you can find it. I USED to be
able to make it so cold that water would condense on the automatic shifter
handle. Not any more.



My mechanic said that 134a operates at a much higher pressure and there just
isn't enough room up front to get the air it needs. Plus, if there are any
seeps in the system, you'll know. I mothballed my old york compressor in
favor of a new sanden. It is a nice compressor that is much better sounding
that the york.



Up side is that you can get 134a anywhere and put it in yourself. Near as I
can tell, that's the only plus.



--P



On Mar 8, 2007, at 7:40 PM, Jeff Shanholtz wrote:





I searched the archives and found some interesting discussion on the
aftermarket kits (I actually started the discussion, then ended up not
buying one!). Well, I'm ready to get and install one, and I talked to one of
the sales guys at Mustangs Plus since they sell both Vintage and Classic
Auto (I wanted to get their opinion of the better unit, as well as pros and
cons). I thought I'd share what he said because it might be helpful for
other people too, and I want to see what you guys think. Also soliciting any
other advice, general opinions, or interesting notes on the topic.

P.S. I'm not planning to go with the stock look version and I have a 66
coupe.

1. He said the 2 units for 65/66 are very similar over all (not true
for 67 and up), but he gave the edge to CAA.
2. Regarding refrigerants, he said R134 in these units cools very well
(equal to an 07 mustang according to him), but he hasn't heard of ES-12a
(Lance mentioned this in that old discussion, and said it's better than R134
and R12). I know some people here have said they're not satisfied with the
cooling power of 134. Do you suppose that it could reflect a problem in
those installations? Or do you think he just doesn't know R12 enough from a
comparison standpoint to know any better? Also he said he's never heard of
ES-12a. Curious to hear opinions on this alternative (Lance and anyone
else).
3. I have those kick panels with the "raised" speaker holes, so I asked
if there would be any conflict with the registers that mount at the sides of
the dash. He said no problems there.
4. Asked if the heat/defrost/vents would be any different in terms of
functionality, and he said "better" because it's new/modern. I'd love to
hear if any of you noticed any difference in how well these worked after
your install.
5. Asked if getting replacement parts is a problem and he said no
problem at all.
6. Also I had noticed some reference to electric motors and asked him
about this. He said that while it uses the stock control panel, it actually
internally uses electric motors to control the internal doors (or whatever
you call them). I'm curious as to how this works, especially from the
standpoint of the control panel. Do you notice any difference in operation
(e.g. do the sliders feel more like discrete switches)? Any idea how this is
an improvement over the stock controls?

_______________________________________________

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Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca

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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 05:23:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Dennis Harrelson
Subject: Re: [CM] Seat pan and stiffness
To: A list for owners of Classic Mustangs

Message-ID: <20070309132340.29504.qmail at web34413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I did find a link to installation instructions on
C.E.'s site, but their sketch is not very good. It
looks as if it mounts pretty much at the rear end of
the front rail. If that's the case, and it keeps you
level on a hard launch, the distance forward must not
be important, even though Global West and Mair Racing
both make a point of attaching their's farther
forward. Do you have any elaborate stuff like the
cross ties to the rockers or anything?
Thanks,
Dennis
--- Chris Kelly wrote:

> Give me a day or so and I'll send a link to some
> pics. They are just mig
> welded to the chassis. Not pretty because I'm not
> so good with a welder
> sometimes, but they didn't fall out from under the
> car on the first pass
> lol.
>
> =====================================
> Chris Kelly - ckelly at raceabilene.net
> raceabilene.net/kelly/hotrod
> Merkel, Texas
> Member:
> International Hot Rod Association
> Abilene Performance Car Association
> Falcon Club of America
> =====================================
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
> >
>
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca]
> On
> > Behalf Of Dennis Harrelson
> > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:33 PM
> > To: Chris Kelly
> > Subject: Re: [CM] Seat pan and stiffness
> >
> > Well, it sure looks like they're doing their job.
> How far
> > forward on the front rail do they mount? The ones
> I linked to
> > slide inside the back end of the front rails, but
> I can't
> > tell how far. It seems like the farther forward
> the better. I
> > thought the eBay ones looked like they followed
> the contours
> > a little better, but like you say, you really
> can't tell from
> > the pictures how the C.E. pieces fit, even on
> their own site.
> > Later,
> > Dennis
> > --- Chris Kelly wrote:
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
>
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs
>
> Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki!
> sauce.donair.org/~cm/
>





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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 05:38:31 -0800
From: "Jeff Shanholtz"
Subject: Re: [CM] air conditioning kits
To: "'A list for owners of Classic Mustangs'"

Message-ID: <030e01c76250$39eb0dc0$92d9a8c0 at shanholtz.com>
Keywords: Subscription Mail
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

So it sounds like you're essentially suggesting start with the R134a kit
which should provide plenty of cooling, and only try the ES-12a if results
are disappointing.

This refrigerant discussion is important to me, but I'd also love to hear
what people think of some of the other notes I mentioned, or things not
mentioning that someone thinks is worth mentioning.

Thanks!

_____

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Lance
Robaldo
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:23 AM
To: jeffsubs at shanholtz.com
Subject: Re: [CM] air conditioning kits



R134a CAN cool as well as R12, but not in a stock R12 system.



R134a requires a larger condenser to get the same cooling that R12 gets.

The full 134a systems come with the proper condenser for 134.

Retrofitting an existing r12 system by just sucking out all the R12 and
replacing it with 134A still uses your stock (smaller) R12 condenser so you
don't get maximum efficiency.



My son's 66 Coupe has been retrofitted to use R134, but we also changed out
the condenser to one we got from a 134a car in a junk yard and yes, it gets
so cold that it can condense moisture onto the shifter handle.



Also, for a r12 to 134a conversion you really should change out your soft
lines and seals. The 134a oil can be hard on the r12 seals and they will
fail prematurely.



As far as the alternative refrigerant I mentioned way back, I still haven't
used it in my Mustang, so I can't speak first hand on it. Several friends
swear by it though.



Lance.





_____

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Jeff
Shanholtz
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:36 PM
To: Lance at robaldo.com
Subject: Re: [CM] air conditioning kits



So that was a conversion from R12 to R134a then? I think I've heard that
R134a conversions aren't as good as systems that are R134a to begin with.
Anyone know if that's true? In other words, I wonder if buying one of these
kits as R134a right off the bat will perform better than if I had an R12
system that I converted?



_____

From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Paul
Sawyer
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:11 PM
To: jeffsubs at shanholtz.com
Subject: Re: [CM] air conditioning kits

J--



I have 134a in an original AC system. ONe of my biggest mistakes. It cools
ok--if the car starts cool (stays in the shade.) If the car is hot, forget
it and roll down the windows.



Even at 80 bucks a pound, r-12 is worth it, if you can find it. I USED to be
able to make it so cold that water would condense on the automatic shifter
handle. Not any more.



My mechanic said that 134a operates at a much higher pressure and there just
isn't enough room up front to get the air it needs. Plus, if there are any
seeps in the system, you'll know. I mothballed my old york compressor in
favor of a new sanden. It is a nice compressor that is much better sounding
that the york.



Up side is that you can get 134a anywhere and put it in yourself. Near as I
can tell, that's the only plus.



--P



On Mar 8, 2007, at 7:40 PM, Jeff Shanholtz wrote:





I searched the archives and found some interesting discussion on the
aftermarket kits (I actually started the discussion, then ended up not
buying one!). Well, I'm ready to get and install one, and I talked to one of
the sales guys at Mustangs Plus since they sell both Vintage and Classic
Auto (I wanted to get their opinion of the better unit, as well as pros and
cons). I thought I'd share what he said because it might be helpful for
other people too, and I want to see what you guys think. Also soliciting any
other advice, general opinions, or interesting notes on the topic.

P.S. I'm not planning to go with the stock look version and I have a 66
coupe.

1. He said the 2 units for 65/66 are very similar over all (not true
for 67 and up), but he gave the edge to CAA.

2. Regarding refrigerants, he said R134 in these units cools very well
(equal to an 07 mustang according to him), but he hasn't heard of ES-12a
(Lance mentioned this in that old discussion, and said it's better than R134
and R12). I know some people here have said they're not satisfied with the
cooling power of 134. Do you suppose that it could reflect a problem in
those installations? Or do you think he just doesn't know R12 enough from a
comparison standpoint to know any better? Also he said he's never heard of
ES-12a. Curious to hear opinions on this alternative (Lance and anyone
else).

3. I have those kick panels with the "raised" speaker holes, so I asked
if there would be any conflict with the registers that mount at the sides of
the dash. He said no problems there.

4. Asked if the heat/defrost/vents would be any different in terms of
functionality, and he said "better" because it's new/modern. I'd love to
hear if any of you noticed any difference in how well these worked after
your install.

5. Asked if getting replacement parts is a problem and he said no
problem at all.

6. Also I had noticed some reference to electric motors and asked him
about this. He said that while it uses the stock control panel, it actually
internally uses electric motors to control the internal doors (or whatever
you call them). I'm curious as to how this works, especially from the
standpoint of the control panel. Do you notice any difference in operation
(e.g. do the sliders feel more like discrete switches)? Any idea how this is
an improvement over the stock controls?

_______________________________________________

Classic-mustangs mailing list

Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca

lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs



Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/



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End of Classic-mustangs Digest, Vol 48, Issue 11
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