Classic Mustangs List Archive
351W Install.....and a Thank You!!
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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Eric E. Neumeister)
Thanks, this gives me a little more detail to what I went
through.
The motor IS a stroker, which explains why the builders
wanted to know which way to go. The other shop wanted to
make sure they got the proper fly wheel (engine builders
supplied damper) and apparently the bracket/pulley selection
for a serpentine system in a '66 coupe was better with the 4
bolt lower pulley than the 3.
So from what your saying, the dampers are interchangeable
between a 302 and a 351, as long as the balance is right?
Thanks,
Eric
Still trying to figure out which parts he has in case
they need replacing
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cole" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [CM] 351W Install.....and a Thank You!!
> 100 % Positive.
>
> The flywheel deal is what causes the confusion. There are
157 and 164
> tooth units. Both are available in 50oz and 28 oz . Most
351's had a 164
> tooth and all are 28 oz, 157 tooth units were on 302's
prior to 81. After
> that the 302 units are 50 oz. There are some 164 tooth
50oz units. These
> are on post 81 302's that had the AOD trans. All AOD's
use the 164
> tooth. Since you replaced a 302 with a 351 you needed the
302 size (157
> tooth) with the 351W balance. Don't know why they thought
the serpentine
> belt has anything to do with it. All 302's that had the
serpentine belt
> were 80's and later. All were 50oz. All 351W's with the
serpentine belt
> were still 28 oz in.
>
> As an example on the balance. Look at any aftermarket
damper listing. The
> 351 always uses the same part # as a the early 302. My
aftermarket
> damper on my race car is the one sold by Ford, Summit, and
a few other
> companies. It has dual bolt patterns to use either the 3
or 4 bolt pulley.
>
> If they sold you a 50 oz damper for a 35W I would ask for
my money back
> asp. It will run, but it's pounding the bearings to
death. Some
> companies will use a 50oz damper on a 351W based stroker
though. A stroker
> thows the whole balance off and it's easier to balance
with the 50oz
> damper. They don't have to add as much weight to the
crank. It's cheaper
> that way
>
> The 351W crank never changed from beginning to end. Other
than a small
> change on how the rear main seal works. All the throws,
counterweights are
> the same size from 69-96. The late 50 oz 302 crank has
much smaller
> counterweights (compared to the pre 81 302 cranks) for
better fuel mileage
> and cheaper mfg. Less weight in the middle means more
weight on the damper
> and flywheel to balance it.
>
> Later,
>
> David Cole
>
> At 10:36 AM 1/21/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Are you sure? I know when I was ordering my crate motor
> >they wanted to know which balance I wanted and the
company I
> >bought the clutch and pulley set up from also wanted to
know
> >because as far as pulley setups went the number of holes
for
> >the pulley (which is what they both used as the indicator
of
> >balance) determined which pulley setups were available.
In
> >fact we went with the 50oz so I could go with a
serpentine
> >setup.
> >
> >I don't claim to be an expert by any means, just relaying
> >what I have been told (and thought I had learned) during
my
> >302-351W swap.
> >
> >Maybe someone can clear up where my misunderstanding was?
> >
> >Eric
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "David Cole" <(email redacted)>
> >To: <(email redacted)>
> >Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:06 AM
> >Subject: Re: [CM] 351W Install.....and a Thank You!!
> >
> >
> > > Errr. That's not quite right. The number of bolt
holes
> >for the pulley has
> > > nothing to do with the balance. ALL 351W engines are
28
> >oz/in
> > > imbalance. No matter what the year. The 302 was 28
oz
> >also until
> > > 1981. Then it changed to 50 oz/in. It was a running
> >change. So be careful
> > > of any 302 in that general area.
> > >
> > > The 3 bolt pulley was used for 1969 351W's. They were
> >changed to 4 bolt
> > > starting in 1970.
> > >
> > > The trans and flexplate from the car will work just
fine.
> >If the new
> > > engine has a single belt setup make sure to get all
the
> >brackets etc. Also
> > > the water pump turns backwards with a single belt. So
> >stay with the on the
> > > engine (or a new one of the same type.
> > >
> > > As said, the distributor is different. Two other
things.
> >The timing
> > > cover may or may not have a place for a regular fuel
pump.
> >Ford phased
> > > them out, but I have seen an 88 model without and a 89
> >model with. So they
> > > used whatever was in the parts bin. The oil pan
/pickup
> >will need to be
> > > changed. The trucks use a rear sump pan to clear the
> >front crossmember. A
> > > 72 Mustang will need a regular front sump.
> > >
> > > Later,
> > >
> > > David Cole
> > >
> > > At 06:16 AM 1/21/2002 -0500, Eric E. Neumeister wrote:
> > > >One thing to look for is the harmonic balancer, are
there
> > > >three bolt holes for the pully or four? The number
of
> >bolt
> > > >holes in the harmonic balancer is an indicator to
what
> > > >balance weight is used, three bolts says 25 oz
(early),
> > > >while the four indicates 50 oz(late). What this
tells
> >you
> > > >is which fly wheel/flex plate to use (fly wheel or
flex
> > > >plate must have be tagged the same weight balance).
It
> >also
> > > >indicates whether you use early bracketing or late
> > > >bracketing to get all the accessories (alt, ac, wp)
to
> >line
> > > >up for fan belts.
> > > >Next thing you mentioned fuel injection, if that is
the
> >case
> > > >I have no experience but believe that all you'll need
to
> >do
> > > >is put a NA intake and carb, on. You will also need
a
> > > >different distributor than the one out of the 302,
they
> >are
> > > >different from the 351 (I have a practically new
Accell
> >for
> > > >150 /sales pitch). Beyond that it should be a
straight
> >bolt
> > > >up.
> > > >
> > > >Good luck.
> > > >
> > > >Eric
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Ron Cordes <(email redacted)>
> > > >To: Fordnatics <(email redacted)>;
> >Classic
> > > >Mustangs <(email redacted)>
> > > >Date: Sunday, January 20, 2002 7:28 PM
> > > >Subject: [CM] 351W Install.....and a Thank You!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Thanks to all for the help with the Transmission
(fmx)
> >I
> > > >found it cheaper to
> > > > >have it rebuilt (Jim palmer great guy) 575 with
MANY
> >hard
> > > >parts, I have a
> > > > >new question that DEMANDS the most immediate help:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Monday I will be receiving a FREE 351W out
of a
> >late
> > > >80's Ford F-150
> > > > >and need to know what things I will have to change
to
> >make
> > > >it work, for
> > > > >example, the intake, what distributor, is it diff
for a
> > > >fuel injection
> > > > >motor, can I just through a 70's 351 dist in and it
> >will
> > > >run?
> > > > >
> > > > > What about the headers? What about the bolt
pattern
> >on
> > > >the tranny will
> > > > >it work? (please God yes) do I need a diff flex
plate?
> > > > >
> > > > >I am removing a Stock 1972 302 for rebuild and need
to
> > > >install temporarily,
> > > > >during rebuild.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you need any more info please let me know,
Oh
> >yeah I
> > > >am planning on
> > > > >using the stock belt system from the 351W for now.
> > > > >
> > > > >Like I said Thanks for the previous question, and
> >Thanks in
> > > >advance for the
> > > > >help.
> > > > >
> > > > >Ron
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >Classic-mustangs mailing list
> > > > >(email redacted)
> > > >
> >
>mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Classic-mustangs mailing list
> > > >(email redacted)
> > >
> >
>mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Classic-mustangs mailing list
> > > (email redacted)
> > >
>
>mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Classic-mustangs mailing list
> >(email redacted)
>
>mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> (email redacted)
>
mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
>
Mail From: (email redacted) (Eric E. Neumeister)
Thanks, this gives me a little more detail to what I went
through.
The motor IS a stroker, which explains why the builders
wanted to know which way to go. The other shop wanted to
make sure they got the proper fly wheel (engine builders
supplied damper) and apparently the bracket/pulley selection
for a serpentine system in a '66 coupe was better with the 4
bolt lower pulley than the 3.
So from what your saying, the dampers are interchangeable
between a 302 and a 351, as long as the balance is right?
Thanks,
Eric
Still trying to figure out which parts he has in case
they need replacing
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cole" <(email redacted)>
To: <(email redacted)>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [CM] 351W Install.....and a Thank You!!
> 100 % Positive.
>
> The flywheel deal is what causes the confusion. There are
157 and 164
> tooth units. Both are available in 50oz and 28 oz . Most
351's had a 164
> tooth and all are 28 oz, 157 tooth units were on 302's
prior to 81. After
> that the 302 units are 50 oz. There are some 164 tooth
50oz units. These
> are on post 81 302's that had the AOD trans. All AOD's
use the 164
> tooth. Since you replaced a 302 with a 351 you needed the
302 size (157
> tooth) with the 351W balance. Don't know why they thought
the serpentine
> belt has anything to do with it. All 302's that had the
serpentine belt
> were 80's and later. All were 50oz. All 351W's with the
serpentine belt
> were still 28 oz in.
>
> As an example on the balance. Look at any aftermarket
damper listing. The
> 351 always uses the same part # as a the early 302. My
aftermarket
> damper on my race car is the one sold by Ford, Summit, and
a few other
> companies. It has dual bolt patterns to use either the 3
or 4 bolt pulley.
>
> If they sold you a 50 oz damper for a 35W I would ask for
my money back
> asp. It will run, but it's pounding the bearings to
death. Some
> companies will use a 50oz damper on a 351W based stroker
though. A stroker
> thows the whole balance off and it's easier to balance
with the 50oz
> damper. They don't have to add as much weight to the
crank. It's cheaper
> that way
>
> The 351W crank never changed from beginning to end. Other
than a small
> change on how the rear main seal works. All the throws,
counterweights are
> the same size from 69-96. The late 50 oz 302 crank has
much smaller
> counterweights (compared to the pre 81 302 cranks) for
better fuel mileage
> and cheaper mfg. Less weight in the middle means more
weight on the damper
> and flywheel to balance it.
>
> Later,
>
> David Cole
>
> At 10:36 AM 1/21/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Are you sure? I know when I was ordering my crate motor
> >they wanted to know which balance I wanted and the
company I
> >bought the clutch and pulley set up from also wanted to
know
> >because as far as pulley setups went the number of holes
for
> >the pulley (which is what they both used as the indicator
of
> >balance) determined which pulley setups were available.
In
> >fact we went with the 50oz so I could go with a
serpentine
> >setup.
> >
> >I don't claim to be an expert by any means, just relaying
> >what I have been told (and thought I had learned) during
my
> >302-351W swap.
> >
> >Maybe someone can clear up where my misunderstanding was?
> >
> >Eric
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "David Cole" <(email redacted)>
> >To: <(email redacted)>
> >Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:06 AM
> >Subject: Re: [CM] 351W Install.....and a Thank You!!
> >
> >
> > > Errr. That's not quite right. The number of bolt
holes
> >for the pulley has
> > > nothing to do with the balance. ALL 351W engines are
28
> >oz/in
> > > imbalance. No matter what the year. The 302 was 28
oz
> >also until
> > > 1981. Then it changed to 50 oz/in. It was a running
> >change. So be careful
> > > of any 302 in that general area.
> > >
> > > The 3 bolt pulley was used for 1969 351W's. They were
> >changed to 4 bolt
> > > starting in 1970.
> > >
> > > The trans and flexplate from the car will work just
fine.
> >If the new
> > > engine has a single belt setup make sure to get all
the
> >brackets etc. Also
> > > the water pump turns backwards with a single belt. So
> >stay with the on the
> > > engine (or a new one of the same type.
> > >
> > > As said, the distributor is different. Two other
things.
> >The timing
> > > cover may or may not have a place for a regular fuel
pump.
> >Ford phased
> > > them out, but I have seen an 88 model without and a 89
> >model with. So they
> > > used whatever was in the parts bin. The oil pan
/pickup
> >will need to be
> > > changed. The trucks use a rear sump pan to clear the
> >front crossmember. A
> > > 72 Mustang will need a regular front sump.
> > >
> > > Later,
> > >
> > > David Cole
> > >
> > > At 06:16 AM 1/21/2002 -0500, Eric E. Neumeister wrote:
> > > >One thing to look for is the harmonic balancer, are
there
> > > >three bolt holes for the pully or four? The number
of
> >bolt
> > > >holes in the harmonic balancer is an indicator to
what
> > > >balance weight is used, three bolts says 25 oz
(early),
> > > >while the four indicates 50 oz(late). What this
tells
> >you
> > > >is which fly wheel/flex plate to use (fly wheel or
flex
> > > >plate must have be tagged the same weight balance).
It
> >also
> > > >indicates whether you use early bracketing or late
> > > >bracketing to get all the accessories (alt, ac, wp)
to
> >line
> > > >up for fan belts.
> > > >Next thing you mentioned fuel injection, if that is
the
> >case
> > > >I have no experience but believe that all you'll need
to
> >do
> > > >is put a NA intake and carb, on. You will also need
a
> > > >different distributor than the one out of the 302,
they
> >are
> > > >different from the 351 (I have a practically new
Accell
> >for
> > > >150 /sales pitch). Beyond that it should be a
straight
> >bolt
> > > >up.
> > > >
> > > >Good luck.
> > > >
> > > >Eric
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Ron Cordes <(email redacted)>
> > > >To: Fordnatics <(email redacted)>;
> >Classic
> > > >Mustangs <(email redacted)>
> > > >Date: Sunday, January 20, 2002 7:28 PM
> > > >Subject: [CM] 351W Install.....and a Thank You!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Thanks to all for the help with the Transmission
(fmx)
> >I
> > > >found it cheaper to
> > > > >have it rebuilt (Jim palmer great guy) 575 with
MANY
> >hard
> > > >parts, I have a
> > > > >new question that DEMANDS the most immediate help:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Monday I will be receiving a FREE 351W out
of a
> >late
> > > >80's Ford F-150
> > > > >and need to know what things I will have to change
to
> >make
> > > >it work, for
> > > > >example, the intake, what distributor, is it diff
for a
> > > >fuel injection
> > > > >motor, can I just through a 70's 351 dist in and it
> >will
> > > >run?
> > > > >
> > > > > What about the headers? What about the bolt
pattern
> >on
> > > >the tranny will
> > > > >it work? (please God yes) do I need a diff flex
plate?
> > > > >
> > > > >I am removing a Stock 1972 302 for rebuild and need
to
> > > >install temporarily,
> > > > >during rebuild.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you need any more info please let me know,
Oh
> >yeah I
> > > >am planning on
> > > > >using the stock belt system from the 351W for now.
> > > > >
> > > > >Like I said Thanks for the previous question, and
> >Thanks in
> > > >advance for the
> > > > >help.
> > > > >
> > > > >Ron
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >Classic-mustangs mailing list
> > > > >(email redacted)
> > > >
> >
>mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Classic-mustangs mailing list
> > > >(email redacted)
> > >
> >
>mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Classic-mustangs mailing list
> > > (email redacted)
> > >
>
>mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Classic-mustangs mailing list
> >(email redacted)
>
>mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> (email redacted)
>
mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
>
|
., Online, USA
|
|
., Online, USA
|
This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Ron Cordes)
THE DEAL FELL THROUGH TODAY< I WILL NEED TO FIND A NEW BUYER IF I EVER PLAN
ON GETTING THE MOTOR!!!!!!!!!
Ron
Mail From: (email redacted) (Ron Cordes)
THE DEAL FELL THROUGH TODAY< I WILL NEED TO FIND A NEW BUYER IF I EVER PLAN
ON GETTING THE MOTOR!!!!!!!!!
Ron
|
., Online, USA
|
This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: (email redacted) (Eric E. Neumeister)
Bummer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Cordes" <(email redacted)>
To: "Fordnatics" <(email redacted)>;
<(email redacted)>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] 351W Install.....and a Thank You!!
> THE DEAL FELL THROUGH TODAY< I WILL NEED TO FIND A NEW
BUYER IF I EVER PLAN
> ON GETTING THE MOTOR!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
> Ron
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> (email redacted)
>
mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
>
Mail From: (email redacted) (Eric E. Neumeister)
Bummer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Cordes" <(email redacted)>
To: "Fordnatics" <(email redacted)>;
<(email redacted)>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [CM] 351W Install.....and a Thank You!!
> THE DEAL FELL THROUGH TODAY< I WILL NEED TO FIND A NEW
BUYER IF I EVER PLAN
> ON GETTING THE MOTOR!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
> Ron
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Classic-mustangs mailing list
> (email redacted)
>
mix.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo/classic-mustangs
>
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