Classic Mustangs List Archive

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Mail From: wal (Wal Marshall)

Since the list has been a bit quiet lately I thought I would throw this one
out

Im currently working on restoring the engine bay wiring on my 69 while the
engine is out for work. The battery charging as always been dodgy on this
car and at one point the battery boiled so I replaced the voltage regulator.


Now with the engine out I note that the wiring to the alternator has been
hacked by some PC and Im wondering if its connected correctly.

On the back of the alternator are four connections marked

BAT = battery ?
FLD = Field ?
STA = Stator ?
GRD = Ground ?

It looks exactly like this:
fordfuelinjection.com/public/alternator/1Galternator02.jpg and has a
rebuilt sticker.

Ive got four 1969 Mustang wiring diagrams and they all show the alternator
and voltage regulator differently!! One of the key differences is the
stator connection. It seems that in one set up the STA is left disconnected.
On another it is grounded. On yet another the stator connection is shown as
having a fourth set of diodes and is then connected to the STA connection on
the voltage regulator. e.g. as shown here

fordfuelinjection.com/public/alternator/1G-ALT_wiring.gif

Im confused as to what to do. The existing (butchered) set up had the STA
terminal connected to the "I" terminal on the voltage regulator.... almost
certainly not correct.

Should i try running with the stator terminal disconnected, and just the
original thick Orange and Black wires to BAT and FLD. Then the remaining
thin black wire goes to GRD. At the voltage regulator just plug in the
original harness and leave the I connection on the bottom disconnected. That
would appear to be the stock set up???

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers, Wal Marshall



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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: walt (Walt Boeninger)

norcal-saac.org/work/altwiring.doc

... is the wiring diagram from the '67 shop manual
which *should* be similar for 69 ... there are
two different wirings depending on whether there is
a an Ammeter or idiot light. One uses the S connection
and one does not....



Wal Marshall wrote:
> Since the list has been a bit quiet lately I thought I would throw this
> one out
>
> Im currently working on restoring the engine bay wiring on my 69 while
> the engine is out for work. The battery charging as always been dodgy on
> this car and at one point the battery boiled so I replaced the voltage
> regulator.
>
> Now with the engine out I note that the wiring to the alternator has
> been hacked by some PC and Im wondering if its connected correctly.
>
> On the back of the alternator are four connections marked
>
> BAT = battery ?
> FLD = Field ?
> STA = Stator ?
> GRD = Ground ?
>
> It looks exactly like this:
> fordfuelinjection.com/public/alternator/1Galternator02.jpg and
> has a rebuilt sticker.
>
> Ive got four 1969 Mustang wiring diagrams and they all show the
> alternator and voltage regulator differently!! One of the key
> differences is the stator connection. It seems that in one set up
> the STA is left disconnected. On another it is grounded. On yet another
> the stator connection is shown as having a fourth set of diodes and is
> then connected to the STA connection on the voltage regulator. e.g. as
> shown here
>
> fordfuelinjection.com/public/alternator/1G-ALT_wiring.gif
>
> Im confused as to what to do. The existing (butchered) set up had the
> STA terminal connected to the "I" terminal on the voltage regulator....
> almost certainly not correct.
>
> Should i try running with the stator terminal disconnected, and just the
> original thick Orange and Black wires to BAT and FLD. Then the
> remaining thin black wire goes to GRD. At the voltage regulator just
> plug in the original harness and leave the I connection on the bottom
> disconnected. That would appear to be the stock set up???
>
> Any advice appreciated.
>
> Cheers, Wal Marshall
>
>
>
>

Regards
--------------
Walt Boeninger
walt at boeninger.net
webmaster at norcal-saac.org
shelbytransam.com

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: wal (Wal Marshall)

Awesome thanks Walt.

My car is a Mach so uses an ammeter. This is confirming my thoughts that the
stator centre point is left floating as in the second option on the page.

I cant remember the ammeter ever actually working before, so I must do a
check and see if its actually alive or been cooked.

Cheers, Wal


-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Walt
Boeninger
Sent: Tuesday, 22 July 2008 4:09 a.m.
To: wal at nzmustang.com
Subject: Re: [CM] 1st generation alternator connection

norcal-saac.org/work/altwiring.doc

... is the wiring diagram from the '67 shop manual which *should* be similar
for 69 ... there are two different wirings depending on whether there is a
an Ammeter or idiot light. One uses the S connection and one does not....



Wal Marshall wrote:
> Since the list has been a bit quiet lately I thought I would throw
> this one out
>
> Im currently working on restoring the engine bay wiring on my 69
> while the engine is out for work. The battery charging as always been
> dodgy on this car and at one point the battery boiled so I replaced
> the voltage regulator.
>
> Now with the engine out I note that the wiring to the alternator has
> been hacked by some PC and Im wondering if its connected correctly.
>
> On the back of the alternator are four connections marked
>
> BAT = battery ?
> FLD = Field ?
> STA = Stator ?
> GRD = Ground ?
>
> It looks exactly like this:
> fordfuelinjection.com/public/alternator/1Galternator02.jpg and
> has a rebuilt sticker.
>
> Ive got four 1969 Mustang wiring diagrams and they all show the
> alternator and voltage regulator differently!! One of the key
> differences is the stator connection. It seems that in one set up the
> STA is left disconnected. On another it is grounded. On yet another
> the stator connection is shown as having a fourth set of diodes and is
> then connected to the STA connection on the voltage regulator. e.g. as
> shown here
>
> fordfuelinjection.com/public/alternator/1G-ALT_wiring.gif
>
> Im confused as to what to do. The existing (butchered) set up had the
> STA terminal connected to the "I" terminal on the voltage regulator....
> almost certainly not correct.
>
> Should i try running with the stator terminal disconnected, and just
> the original thick Orange and Black wires to BAT and FLD. Then the
> remaining thin black wire goes to GRD. At the voltage regulator just
> plug in the original harness and leave the I connection on the bottom
> disconnected. That would appear to be the stock set up???
>
> Any advice appreciated.
>
> Cheers, Wal Marshall
>
>
>
>

Regards
--------------
Walt Boeninger
walt at boeninger.net
webmaster at norcal-saac.org
shelbytransam.com

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This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: mkupec (Michael J. Kupec)

Wal,

FWIW: A stringy basic description of how everything works on a Ford Charging
system is as follows:

Voltage Regulator:

Field Relay - basically a power relay that puts 12 volts from the battery to
the alternator field. On a charging system with an ammeter, this relay is
energized through the ignition switch which is wired to the "S" terminal of
the regulator. With an idiot light based charging system, 12 volts is
applied via the ignition switch which goes to the "I" terminal of the
regulator then through the closed contacts of the voltage regulator relay to
the rotating field (armature of alternator). Once engine is up to speed,
voltage is picked off of the alternator at the Stator Terminal to energize
the Field Relay, thus bypassing the idiot light and causing it to
extinguish.

On an idiot light based system, if the alternator/regulator fails, the
voltage produces at the Stator terminal will disappear and thus cause the
Field relay to de-energize. When that happens, the idiot light on the dash
will start to glow indicating a bad charging system. The 15 Ohm resistor in
parallel with the idiot light is there to allow the charging system to work
if the idiot light were to burn out or the filament to fail. Doesn't make
sense since if the light fails, then how will you know if your charging
system is working?

Voltage Regulator Relay Circuit:

This section of the regulator comprises of a set of resistors and a relay
that maintain the battery charging voltage at roughly 13.8 volts. This is
done by cycling the full 12 volts from the battery and a lower stepped down
voltage of approx 10 volts to the rotating field. With a good charging
system and a healthy battery, very little variation of the vehicles voltage
should be seen. It should stay around 13.8 volts. A system with a bad ground
of defective wiring or voltage regulator will cause the lights on the
vehicle to pulse or flicker and the amount of flickering will vary with
engine speed. A good solid state voltage regulator will always work better
vs. a older mechanical relay type regulator.

Alternator connections:

Bat Terminal:

Provide the 12 volt charging power to the battery and power to the vehicle
when engine is running.

Stator Terminal:

A 12-16V voltage will be generated from this terminal while engine is
running. It is used to energize the Field relay on the alternator when the
engine is running, thus extinguishing the idiot light on the dash of
non-ammeter vehicles. This terminal can also be used to energize a fuel pump
relay for carbureted engines running an electrical fuel pump thus acting as
a safety feature to shut down fuel deliver when engine is not running and
ignition switch is on. It can also be used to provide power to an electric
choke element on the carburetor choke assy.


Field Terminal:

A voltage varying between 10 and 12 volts is applied to this terminal to
control output voltage generated from the alternator. Higher the field
voltage the higher the output voltage of the alternator will be.

This is a basic description of how the system works. Why one Mustang
charging harness can be different from another Mustang of the same year is
attributed to the addition or lack of an ammeter. With ammeter equipped
cars, you don't need a connection to the stator on the alternator but the
stator terminal on the regulator is powered via the ignition switch. I've
seen Ford where they had a fried ammeter setup because someone disconnected
the shunt between the battery and bat terminal on the alternator but left
the ammeter wiring in the circuit then they have tried repairing the system
following a wiring diagram off a idiot light based car. Sometimes it works,
sometimes they just end up frying both the alternator and regulator setup
and have to have a pro fix it.

HTH

Michael J. Kupec
mkupec at comcast.net
mkupec at blueovalcorral.com
blueovalcorral.com

"Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" - Will Rogers

This read-only message was archived from a public mail list.
Mail From: wal (Wal Marshall)

Thanks for that Michael, Excellent!

Ive reconnected everything to what I think is the original stock set up .
Once the engine is back in and running I will check to make sure the
charging voltage is close to 13.8 V.

Meantime the engine bay is looking pristine after a lot of cleaning,
painting and new fasteners (goodbye to 40 years of accumulated grime, grease
and surface rust) and the motor is due back from the rebuilder any day,
after a state of the art electronic balance job and complete rebuild.

Cheers, Wal



-----Original Message-----
From: classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca
[mailto:classic-mustangs-bounces at lists.twistedpair.ca] On Behalf Of Michael
J. Kupec
Sent: Wednesday, 23 July 2008 1:02 a.m.
To: wal at nzmustang.com
Subject: Re: [CM] 1st generation alternator connection

Wal,

FWIW: A stringy basic description of how everything works on a Ford Charging
system is as follows:

Voltage Regulator:

Field Relay - basically a power relay that puts 12 volts from the battery to
the alternator field. On a charging system with an ammeter, this relay is
energized through the ignition switch which is wired to the "S" terminal of
the regulator. With an idiot light based charging system, 12 volts is
applied via the ignition switch which goes to the "I" terminal of the
regulator then through the closed contacts of the voltage regulator relay to
the rotating field (armature of alternator). Once engine is up to speed,
voltage is picked off of the alternator at the Stator Terminal to energize
the Field Relay, thus bypassing the idiot light and causing it to
extinguish.

On an idiot light based system, if the alternator/regulator fails, the
voltage produces at the Stator terminal will disappear and thus cause the
Field relay to de-energize. When that happens, the idiot light on the dash
will start to glow indicating a bad charging system. The 15 Ohm resistor in
parallel with the idiot light is there to allow the charging system to work
if the idiot light were to burn out or the filament to fail. Doesn't make
sense since if the light fails, then how will you know if your charging
system is working?

Voltage Regulator Relay Circuit:

This section of the regulator comprises of a set of resistors and a relay
that maintain the battery charging voltage at roughly 13.8 volts. This is
done by cycling the full 12 volts from the battery and a lower stepped down
voltage of approx 10 volts to the rotating field. With a good charging
system and a healthy battery, very little variation of the vehicles voltage
should be seen. It should stay around 13.8 volts. A system with a bad ground
of defective wiring or voltage regulator will cause the lights on the
vehicle to pulse or flicker and the amount of flickering will vary with
engine speed. A good solid state voltage regulator will always work better
vs. a older mechanical relay type regulator.

Alternator connections:

Bat Terminal:

Provide the 12 volt charging power to the battery and power to the vehicle
when engine is running.

Stator Terminal:

A 12-16V voltage will be generated from this terminal while engine is
running. It is used to energize the Field relay on the alternator when the
engine is running, thus extinguishing the idiot light on the dash of
non-ammeter vehicles. This terminal can also be used to energize a fuel pump
relay for carbureted engines running an electrical fuel pump thus acting as
a safety feature to shut down fuel deliver when engine is not running and
ignition switch is on. It can also be used to provide power to an electric
choke element on the carburetor choke assy.


Field Terminal:

A voltage varying between 10 and 12 volts is applied to this terminal to
control output voltage generated from the alternator. Higher the field
voltage the higher the output voltage of the alternator will be.

This is a basic description of how the system works. Why one Mustang
charging harness can be different from another Mustang of the same year is
attributed to the addition or lack of an ammeter. With ammeter equipped
cars, you don't need a connection to the stator on the alternator but the
stator terminal on the regulator is powered via the ignition switch. I've
seen Ford where they had a fried ammeter setup because someone disconnected
the shunt between the battery and bat terminal on the alternator but left
the ammeter wiring in the circuit then they have tried repairing the system
following a wiring diagram off a idiot light based car. Sometimes it works,
sometimes they just end up frying both the alternator and regulator setup
and have to have a pro fix it.

HTH

Michael J. Kupec
mkupec at comcast.net
mkupec at blueovalcorral.com
blueovalcorral.com

"Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" - Will Rogers

_______________________________________________
Classic-mustangs mailing list
Classic-mustangs at lists.twistedpair.ca
lists.twistedpair.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi/classic-mustangs

Visit the Classic Mustang Wiki! sauce.donair.org/~cm/ No virus found
in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1565 - Release Date: 21/07/2008
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